I know that this has been approached from several angles in the forums, but I couldn't find the specific answer I was looking for. Looking to move up, I've been reviewing listing from here, BoatTraderOnline, and YachtWorld. I've seen 2000's listed for $55k up to $70k. Now I can understand some differences due to equipment and location/market, but the range to me is pretty dramatic. Next, I went to NADA to get their low/average retail prices. Now I understand that these are actual sale prices, albeit only for those transactions reported to them. Their low is $41k and average is $50k. Whew, after all that, I'm curious as too what I can expect to pay for a moderately equipped boat. I don't need flat screen TVs and 1/2 dozen racing sails. I hate the whole haggling thing, if I went to a broker with a boat listed at say $57k and offered him $50k, take it or leave it, what is the likelihood of him taking it? I appreciate the knowledge and insight that those on this board provide.
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You'll love this answer... it depends.
One important factor, if you can pry it out of someone, is how long the boat has been listed. Prices tend to soften with age. There are people anxious to sell and they'll often take a low offer, so long as it's wiithin reason. But boats new to the market tend ot have slightly firmer pricing.
One important factor, if you can pry it out of someone, is how long the boat has been listed. Prices tend to soften with age. There are people anxious to sell and they'll often take a low offer, so long as it's wiithin reason. But boats new to the market tend ot have slightly firmer pricing.
Take it or leave it
Tom, Give it a whirl, then you will know. Just be aware that "take it or leave it", says you will walk away if they say "leave it". If you come back then with something in the middle, they will probably assume you are bluffing then also. We have a 290 for sale. You probably already reviewed that listing too. Given that it hasn't sold, I have to assume we might be a little over the market. On the other hand, not many have actually sold, so maybe the Buyers just havn't figured out what the market is either. You might find someone who has a distressed situation and get lucky. If you offered me 10% less than my asking price, I'd keep the boat. My advice is to negotiate in good faith. That means you do not use the words "take it or leave it". In a good faith negotiation the parties understand that any offer may be the last offer. By removing confrontation from the negotiations you create good will that might come in handy when the survey is done and you need another 4,000 to fix things. I negotiate sales as a daily part of my business. "Take it or leave it" never made a transaction better. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Tom, Give it a whirl, then you will know. Just be aware that "take it or leave it", says you will walk away if they say "leave it". If you come back then with something in the middle, they will probably assume you are bluffing then also. We have a 290 for sale. You probably already reviewed that listing too. Given that it hasn't sold, I have to assume we might be a little over the market. On the other hand, not many have actually sold, so maybe the Buyers just havn't figured out what the market is either. You might find someone who has a distressed situation and get lucky. If you offered me 10% less than my asking price, I'd keep the boat. My advice is to negotiate in good faith. That means you do not use the words "take it or leave it". In a good faith negotiation the parties understand that any offer may be the last offer. By removing confrontation from the negotiations you create good will that might come in handy when the survey is done and you need another 4,000 to fix things. I negotiate sales as a daily part of my business. "Take it or leave it" never made a transaction better. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Dan . . .
Dan - I appreciate your response, and you are correct, "Take it or leave it" is harsh and not the actual verbage that I would use. But as I mentioned, I HATE haggling. My strategy on big ticket purchases (house, car, boat) has been to do my homework up front, try to determine a figure that I'm comfortable paying, and that hopefully the seller is comfortable taking, and cut right to the chase. I realize that as much as I would like to save some money, the seller would like to make some money. Hopefully by being well informed and doing my research, both ends can be happy. So, I do try to be open minded, it's just the back-and-forth, back-and-forth, of drawn out negotiations drives me crazy. And unfortunately, I probably haven't looked at your boat, because I assume it is on the west coast. Living here in the midwest, I'm patient enough to look to the great lakes in order to facilitate viewing the boat, lower transportation costs, and preferably stick with fresh water boats. I wish you the best of luck in the sale of yours.
Dan - I appreciate your response, and you are correct, "Take it or leave it" is harsh and not the actual verbage that I would use. But as I mentioned, I HATE haggling. My strategy on big ticket purchases (house, car, boat) has been to do my homework up front, try to determine a figure that I'm comfortable paying, and that hopefully the seller is comfortable taking, and cut right to the chase. I realize that as much as I would like to save some money, the seller would like to make some money. Hopefully by being well informed and doing my research, both ends can be happy. So, I do try to be open minded, it's just the back-and-forth, back-and-forth, of drawn out negotiations drives me crazy. And unfortunately, I probably haven't looked at your boat, because I assume it is on the west coast. Living here in the midwest, I'm patient enough to look to the great lakes in order to facilitate viewing the boat, lower transportation costs, and preferably stick with fresh water boats. I wish you the best of luck in the sale of yours.
Follow-on
Tom, Based on the purchase price of a 290 a few years ago, and the cost of commissioning, equipment, etc. I doubt that anyone is making money on a sale. I suspect it has to do with how much you are willing to give up to let it go. If you were looking for a boat that was older, I suspect there would be less pull from the Sellers side. If you put my three year old 290 next to a new 306, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. But I can tell you that similarly equipped the difference is somewhere around 40K, more if we use your figures. I know you don't like to haggle, but it is the time tested way to arrive at the point where a Sellers desire to sell and a Buyers desire to buy crosses. What you should do, and sounds like you are, is decide where your top is. If the paths don't cross before you get there, then we know that fair market value has not been established. In my bussiness (real estate) fair market value is the price at which a willing Seller, unconstrained by other issues (such as needs the money real bad) is willing to sell to a willing Buyer. Thats the short version, but I suspect you get the idea. You might also try to find a boat that is not represented by a broker. Nothing against brokers here (I are one), but a Seller does consider the cost of the commission when selling their boat, particularly if it is a newer boat. Unfortuantely, sometimes the non-brokered seller thinks he should keep the commission, which is unrealistic. The hard part for you if you go that path, is that you will have to do the negotiation and you will also have to search out where those boats might be. Might be harder than you think, but good luck in your search. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
Tom, Based on the purchase price of a 290 a few years ago, and the cost of commissioning, equipment, etc. I doubt that anyone is making money on a sale. I suspect it has to do with how much you are willing to give up to let it go. If you were looking for a boat that was older, I suspect there would be less pull from the Sellers side. If you put my three year old 290 next to a new 306, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. But I can tell you that similarly equipped the difference is somewhere around 40K, more if we use your figures. I know you don't like to haggle, but it is the time tested way to arrive at the point where a Sellers desire to sell and a Buyers desire to buy crosses. What you should do, and sounds like you are, is decide where your top is. If the paths don't cross before you get there, then we know that fair market value has not been established. In my bussiness (real estate) fair market value is the price at which a willing Seller, unconstrained by other issues (such as needs the money real bad) is willing to sell to a willing Buyer. Thats the short version, but I suspect you get the idea. You might also try to find a boat that is not represented by a broker. Nothing against brokers here (I are one), but a Seller does consider the cost of the commission when selling their boat, particularly if it is a newer boat. Unfortuantely, sometimes the non-brokered seller thinks he should keep the commission, which is unrealistic. The hard part for you if you go that path, is that you will have to do the negotiation and you will also have to search out where those boats might be. Might be harder than you think, but good luck in your search. Dan Jonas (S/V Feije II)
I like what Dan has to say...
Tom, Dan offers some very good advice that has also worked for me in the past. Do your homework to determine the value of the boat in question as best you can. Make sure you add contingencies in the Sales Agreement so that you have an out. Hire a good surveyor who can determine that your new boat is a good value. The surveyor can also tell you whether the asking price is reasonable. Determine your floor price, then come in below that for your initial offer with specific items that you feel need to be used to discount the sales price. Worn dodger/bimini/sails, no dink, failing systems, needs bottom painting, etc. Terry
Tom, Dan offers some very good advice that has also worked for me in the past. Do your homework to determine the value of the boat in question as best you can. Make sure you add contingencies in the Sales Agreement so that you have an out. Hire a good surveyor who can determine that your new boat is a good value. The surveyor can also tell you whether the asking price is reasonable. Determine your floor price, then come in below that for your initial offer with specific items that you feel need to be used to discount the sales price. Worn dodger/bimini/sails, no dink, failing systems, needs bottom painting, etc. Terry
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