29.5 winch installation and Strong Track

DrJudyB · Oct 10, 2018

Willie G said:
Hello, I have a 29.5 and am going to add two Lewmar 30 CST back by the helm. I would like to know form anyone who has them already installed there how they ran there Jib Sheets back to the winches. Pictures of the lines would really help.
I am also having an issue when I raise the main. The sale is up. the halyard is VERY tight and from the third batten up, the luff is tight but the bottom portion of the luff is not real tight. I have gone up the mast and can't figure it out. There is something that it is catching on but I can't figure it out. Anybody installed the Tides strong track?
Thanks for any advice

I can't help you with the jib sheet question, but I may be able to offer professional advice about the difficulty raising the mainsail. Please post a couple of high resolution pictures.

Judy

Joe · Oct 10, 2018

It is entirely acceptable to insert a block between the jib lead block and the winch to re direct the sheet for a better angle on the winch. You can easily figure this out by extending the sheet from the jib lead directly to the new winch location. If the entrance angle to the winch is within the parameters recommended by the instructions that came with the winch... then you don't need to change anything. If not, you can slip a small block on the sheet between the two points and move it about to determine optimum position . Many factors affect this.. such as stanchion and other hardware locations and your preferences. Most common, if you don't have a genoa track that reaches back to the helm area, is to use a stand up, spring supported block.

Sailm8 · Oct 10, 2018

Sailm8 · Oct 10, 2018

Sorry for the duplicates had trouble posting pix. I hope this helps but I have a custom mast with in mast furling.

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BlowMeAway · Oct 10, 2018

Hi @Willie G . Sorry that I can’t help with the Lewmars or sheeting because I know little about your rigging, blocks and fair leads. I do have a question about raising the main. When you raise the sail, and the lower luff is sagging, how does the leach look...is it tight or also baggy? If tight you might want to consider slacking the mainsheet, boom vang, and down haul or Cunningham if you have any of those, and let the aft end of the boom rise higher above the cockpit. Of course if you have any pictures of the sail while raised, I’m sure we’ll find the issue...without sending you up the mast again. Welcome to the forum.

Joe · Oct 11, 2018

Sailm8 said:
Sorry for the duplicates had trouble posting pix. I hope this helps but I have a custom mast with in mast furling.

I think you misunderstood his question. He's talking about new SHEET winches near the HELM. All your pictures show mast related rigging and winches on the cabin top.

I have a 29.5 and am going to add two Lewmar 30 CST back by the helm. I would like to know form anyone who has them already installed there how they ran there Jib Sheets back to the winches

Also... there is an edit feature at the bottom of each that is visible to that particular person's post. It stays active for at least a few weeks, maybe longer. This means you can go back and remove all the extra, duplicate pictures yourself at any time....

Sailm8 · Oct 11, 2018

Sorry, my sheet winches are on the cabin top. My traveler is also on the cabin top.

DrJudyB · Oct 11, 2018

Willie G said:
DRJudy B:
I will be up the mast this weekend or next depending on the rain. I'll post pics as soon as I can.

@Willie G ,

You don't need to go up the mast to take the pics. High resolution shots from the deck or dock will do the job beautifully. That way I can see deflections and wrinkles in the sail, which will tell me a lot. Close ups won't contain as much information.

Take some high resolution ones from the deck or dock, please. Try to get the luff from masthead to boom in one or two shots. I want to see where the sail meets the mast, all the way up.

And take one showing the headboard and the halyard leading to the masthead sheaves.

And be sure to get a good shot of the area where the 3rd batten up binds, please.

Pls include a shot or two of the sail from luff to leech would be helpful as well. That'll help me read the shape of the sail to figure out what's pulling where.

Judy
Sailmaker

DrJudyB · Oct 15, 2018

Hi Willie,

It looks to me like that mainsail was converted from a bolt rope to slides, and the conversion wasn't done properly. The obvious thing that jumps out at me from the pictures is that the slides should be connected to the battens in a manner that transfers the compressive load from the battens to the mast properly. The grommets and shackles used do not transfer the compressive loads from the battens to the mast. That second batten is putting a lot of compressive load on the luff.

The slides were added below the battens. The person who did the conversion should have installed new batten boxes (aka receptacles and protectors) on the luff of the sail. The plastic batten boxes on your sail are for use only with bolt rope, and are not recommended for use with slides.

The least expensive way to do it is to use a batten box at the luff designed to attach the slide with webbing not shackles. Switch to an Allslip slide, rather than the ones on your mainsail. There may be some binding using this kind of system, but it often works well enough for boat up to about 30' if the mast is in good condition. This hardware will cost about $20 per batten, plus the needles, palms, etch.

For example, see this video from Sailrite.

The best way to convert would have replaced those receptacles with with a fully articulating stud connection between the slide and the batten box. For example, the Selden receptacles with an "M10" stud would be the next step up, used with an Allslip slide. This will cost you about $35-50 per batten for the batten box, articulating stud, and slide. The only tools you'll need are a small soldering gun (to melt holes for the screws) and a screwdriver. Other full batten systems suitable are the Rutgerson 1530 system, Sailmann 3500, and the Ronstan BattSlide, but they are likely to cost you more. As far as I know, these systems are not sold directly to the public, because the companies who sell them are not equipped to teach DIY-er how to select the right parts. A sailmaker can help you get them.

Regards,
Judy

PS. The second batten is a little too loose, as evidenced by the wrinkles in the sail. The batten should be tensioned with "just barely" enough force to remove the wrinkles. The batten pockets may need some repairs.

PPS. All the slides should be the same distance from the luff, so the luff is the same distance from the mast, all the way down. You may need to lash the tack of the mainsail to the gooseneck with some line to ensure it's pulling the sail down in proper alignment too.

Joe · Oct 16, 2018

Willie G said:
Joe:
thanks for the advice and I like the style you propose. I understand and agree with the ability to place a secondary block on the jib sheet, to get the line to the winch at an angle that it needs to be. On the 29.5 the lead Block is on top of the cabin and I will need to turn it in both the X and Y axis' to get it where I need it. I was hoping that Someone out there could share a picture of blocks with the line running to a set of winches back by the helm on a 29.5 so that I could copy that engineering. I am also curious if they changed the style of the lead block. SAILM8, do you have winches back in the cockpit both sides of the helm?

Again thanks for your help and interest in my situation.

Willie, I found this picture on boat trader and yachtworld... looks like there's a block attached to the stanchion base... could be the roller furling block too. But I don't think it would be harmful since there won't be near as much load there as will be on the lead or if you had a foot block. Anyway, if you decide against stanchion route, a stand up block on the side deck to bring the sheet down and back would be fine... like I said you can move it around to find best fit. The broader the angle to and from the block the better. The standup block I pictured in the previous post may come with a backing plate...but I think some fender washers will work fine.

Another option, is to lay down 3 or 4 feet of T Track on the outside deck and move the jib lead there, you could use the coach mounted track to anchor a barber hauler, Lots more trim options when you can change the sheeting angle easily.

If there's a plate beneath the coaming for mounting a winch... that's cool.... only way to find out is to look underneath or drill a hole. Otherwise, a metal plate or piece of resin coated plywood will work. You can make the backing plate the same diameter as the winch base.... heck... fender/oversize washers will work also.. don't get too overly analytical on this.

The examples of Hunter 29.5's that I looked at were pretty generic... in that there was very little sailing modifications like a beefier winch near the helm(#16 primary on a 30 footer?Yikes!), or an outside track, spinnaker gear or even a wider range traveler.

I have a quick comment on your sail raising problem.....Before your start rebuilding your sail, loosen that top batten. You have way too much built in draft... lots of tension on the luff and also makes it hard for the battens to reverse themselves when they are too tight. Make sure the mainsheet, vang and traveler are off . Spray some silicon on the slide.

Dennis Kitchen · Oct 16, 2018

willie,
What are you calling the back haul? I've never heard of such a thing. However, I observe the same as Dr Judy notes as well as the fact that your topping lift line doesn't appear to adjust and it's way too short and tight. The cut of ; or perhaps stretched sail shape you have may require a lower boom end position in order for the sail to be stretched tight. You'll never get the leech stretched tight with your topping lift too tight. Give it a try.
Also, your sail appears very nearly "full hoist" size. Is it possible that you ave a long halyard splice at the top and the halyard is too fat to pull into the sheeves any further?
Dennis

DrJudyB · Oct 16, 2018

@Willie G,

I forgot to mention - I have a Strong track on my boat, not a Hunter. It's a Corsair Trimaran, with 7 full battens in the mainsail. It goes up and down like lightning, even in 20+ kts of wind on San Francisco Bay.

Here's the video after we built some lazy jacks. (The square top mainsail looks a bit odd because we don't have the upper diagonal batten installed while we were adjusting the lazy jack lines)

DrJudyB · Oct 16, 2018

Will's pictures show the mainsail at the dock, bow to wind at 0 degrees. We can't make many useful observations about shape.

To make any useful observations about the draft depth and position, it would need to be on a close haul in 10-15 kts of wind. Also, the picture would need be be taken from underneath the boom, looking up at the head of the sail,

justsomeguy · Oct 16, 2018

DrJudyB said:
Will's pictures show the mainsail at the dock, bow to wind at 0 degrees. We can't make many useful observations about shape.

DrJudyB said:
To make any useful observations about the draft depth and position, it would need to be on a close haul in 10-15 kts of wind. Also, the picture would need be be taken from underneath the boom, looking up at the head of the sail,

29.5 winch installation and Strong Track

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