28.5 a boat that heels often ?

[Sheboygan 28.5]

As a regular reader of this forum I can tell there are many intelligent sailors out
there, As newbie in this world of sailing and a lover of something I never thought
I would be able to participate in, I consider it a prevliage to pose a question to
such a group of knowlegeable people. I have purchased a Hunter 28.5 a sharp vessel
that is extra clean for her years [21] My problem is she seems awful tippy in winds
that are greater than 10 knots, the past owner used to push her to the limits quite
often, so running w/ a lot of heel was something he did a lot I am told by people at the marina. The reason I added this is it might have a bearing on how the boat is set up.? I am currently set with u.k. tape drive sails at the main and foresail,
the foresail or jib is a 110%, I swiched this with the 150% he took me out with on
my test sail because the boat heeled terribly and did'nt handle well at all.
This test was carried out on a day when the winds were at about 12-15 knots with gusts to 17-20 knots. My main concern at this time was that all electronics were working and the boat had no mechanical problems, At that time I thought the heeling
was because of the jib sail being to large, so at first chance I put on the 110%,
since the purchase of our boat my wife and I have had her out about five times with
out issue,sailing in winds about 5-10 knots,and enjoying ourselves tremendously.
This past weekend we had winds of 12-15 knots, with gusts to 18 knots, Trying to be careful with my wife onboard,she wants nothing to do with any kind of heeling!!
so we went out and only sailed the main, not having the roller furler installed
I elected to not raise the 110% jib to lessen the chance of heeling, Upon raising the main she started to heel so we tried to turn her into the wind to lessen the heel, but she would'nt respond and we had the wheel turned all the way over.This is the second time in six sails I've had this problem, I am getting very gun shy and not to mention very nerveous. At this point I am trying to come up with solutions to this problem, Should install the original sails and take off the racing sails
[u.k. tape drive sails] and install the roller furler?
I am turning to those people who would know best, You! The sailing community,Is
this a common problem associatied with only this particular model? Is this boat to light? Is it a combination of a light boat and the racing sails?
I would like to thank in advance all will provide answers and possibile solutions to my problem

Thanks for your time and helpful
advice!!
Sheboygan 28.5

 

[Jeff D.]

Reefing and experience

I think most of your problems can be traced to a lack of experience. A couple of suggestions and observations.

Since the prior owner, based upon tape drive sails etc., was a serious racer I would suspect the rig is tuned properly.

All mono hulled sailboats heel, some quicker than others. I would say the 28.5 is about average so please don't fret about that. The boat is perfectly safe in the winds you described.

The 28.5 does not sail as well with the just the mainsail as it does with the just the headsail. Yes you can sail with just the headsail.

You don't mention if you reefed the the main. If the tape drive doesn't have reefing points, put the original on and set up the reefing. It is easier to put a reef in at the dock. I would also put the roller furling back on. Don't be afraid to put a reef in the main, furl the Genoa to where you feel comfortable. Don't fall for the macho full sail all the time BS that some boast about. Use a sail combination the both you and your wife are comfortable sailing. You are saing for YOUR enjoyment. This is not something that you learn in two or three weekends.

If possible, find an experienced sailor to take you and your wife out on your boat. You will be suprised how well this boat sails in a variety of wind conditions.

The 28.5 is a great sailing boat. I think that you will not be so worried once you get more experience.

 

[Dennis W.]

Too Much Heel

Just a couple of comments, as I own a H310 and sail with main and 110% I can tell you this. In order to control the boat you must have headway, what you described was a stall. Sailing under main alone it is very easy to pinch up to the point of no headway and hard over, what you need to watch is speed through the water. As to the heeling, a Hunter likes to heel 10 to 15 in any light breeze, above 12 kts consider a 1st reef and at 15 to 18 kts a second reef. Sounds very conservative and it is but it will keep the Admiral happy. I have sailed my H310 close hauled in 20kts with the rail buried, and when properly trimmed and tuned with very little weather helm. I have sailed off the wind in 20+ kts and 6-8 foot quartering swell at over 9 kts surfing with just the 110% flying. Practice and be conservative, reef early and keep the Admiral happy and add to her experience a little at a time. I can say that the Admiral here was converted on a Mac 26 sail to San Diego Harbor from Mission Bay in 15 kts. When we made the turn in with a 150% and full main, we were overpowered and heeled crazily. People pointing and all. The boat (water ballast) quit heeling at 45/50' and we set a reef and switched to working jib. She fell in love with heeling that day. Understood (finally) the dynamics,

 

[seadaddler]

I agree

I agree use the 110 jibe and more reefing is
needed.
My wife and I have been sailing for many years and
she really never likes heeling too much.
I would check the winds and manybe start off with
one reef and if going past 10 knts put a second reef in.
True the boat will handle much better with the jibe.
Is your 28.5 a tall rig or B&R rig.
Nick

 

[Donalex]

Play the Main

Power comes from the wind. Wind causes heeling. Keel, ballast plus hull shape resists heeling. No heeling means no power - you knew that of course.

Yachts may get laid on their sides in very heavy gusts but they never sink nor turn turtle - only in hurricanes - and then only very occasionally. Never fear.
I often demonstrate this safety aspect to new crew members if they seem uncomfortable.

Heel angles of 15˚ are comfortable.
Heel of 22˚ is about optimum for performance before the rudder acts too much as a brake.
Any more is both slow and tiring to all on board and to the boat and sails as well.
You choose your comfort level by adjusting the sail angles and area.
Its a compromise between speed and comfort. That's what sailing is about.

Most crews 'play' the mainsail. In gusty conditions this can become a full time job. A boat racing will carry more sail than one cruising but by constant sail trimming will probably sail more upright - and quicker and safer.
The vang is put hard on and the halyard tensioned quite a bit. This is to flatten the mainsail. Then, in the gusts, the traveller is let down and only pulled back its previous setting after the gust has passed.
Should the traveller alone not be sufficient then the mainsheet is dumped.
If this becomes a frequent occurrence then you really do have too much sail up so reef. As a last resort you could then dump the vang.

In order to have good performance in light winds yachts need plenty of sail. This then becomes a nuisance when the wind pipes up. No shame in reefing in 15-20 knots true. All sensible sailors do this, particularly the racers, but it depends a bit on the type of boat.

Suggestions:-
1) Buy a clinometer and mount it within sight of the helm and (crew)!
2) Both of you go on a course to learn to sail. It is amazing what else one learns as well!

Good sailing (heeling).

 

[Grizz]

Heel!

Good input by the previous posters, as I've got a 21+ year old 28.5 as well, also with a suit of UK Tape Drive sails. As Donalex identified, she sails best in a slot of 15°-17°, above that you have too much force directed laterally and not driving forward in the direction you want to go.

Unless re-rigged for some reason, OEM rig was a B&R rig by Kenyon. You didn't mention if you have a shoal draft or a fin keel. I'm running a fin keel, so my optimum ° values are based upon that specific keel. Yours will be slightly different if you have the shoal draft keel.

For another source, you can post the very same question to the link posted below and receive an additional array of qualified responses from fellow 28.5 owners.

Have fun!

 

[Warren Milberg]

I've got a 1986 H28.5

with shoal draft. I have roller furling and typically use a 150 genoa with a foam luff and a 120 genoa without. I find the boat does heel quite a bit when I use the 150. When the winds get into the 12-14 kt range and higher (white caps are just forming on the Chesapeake), a "lot" of heel and weather helm develops. While I can sail this boat in up to around 18kts with a full main and 150, by that time I've nearly got the lee rail in the water and am fighting the helm. Time to reduce sail. While it would probably be "best" to reef the main first, being mostly a (lazy) single-handler I tend to roll up some genoa first as it's easier, safer, and the foam luff helps the sail keep its shape. I have found I can roll the 150 up to just about any size I want and still get decent performance upwind as when the winds get high and you are already doing hull speed there ain't no way to go faster anyway.

I have also found that using the 120 genoa at the beginning and end of the season here on the Chesapeake is a good strategy for me. The winds are higher at either end of the season and so the smaller genoa just makes sailing a lot more fun and comfortable for passengers. That sail will drive the boat nicely in winds 6 kts and above as the hull of the H28.5 is easily driven. The smaller headsail also allows me to sail in much higher winds without execessive heeling or weather helm.

Take a look at the H28.5 website as you'll gain a lot of useful info on this model boat there.

 

[Landsend]

my 1988 28.5 is tender the first 15 degrees...

after that she's rock solid. I do of course adjust the sail are according to the wind. I must admit that I do love having the rail down when I can get it, I very much enjoy the ride and the sensation of speed.

 

[Sheboygan 28.5]

Heeling 28.5

Thank you for furthering my education, as a newbie this year has been a little
overwhelming, with lessons this past spring, basic keelboat,and basic costal-
cruising, Then jumping into purchasing our liberty, the goal was to rent a boat
for this year then pursue a purchase next year, but boat rentals in our area are not avaliable.
As I had mentioned in my post yesterday when we were on my test sail, I had the
helm the seller was trimming the sails, and the rudder just would not respond it was like it was locked, it stayed this way for few minutes until the wind
grabbed us and rounded us up violently.
All said and done heeling does'nt bother me it's the lack of control I have over the boat that bothers me.
Thanks for the encourgement, I will get that roller furler installed for the added control of sail area and see if that does'nt help also.

Thanks again, Sheboygan 28.5

 

[Sheboygan 28.5]

Heeling 28.5

Thanks for the information, at the very least I have a few more options, being
a new boat owner I just did'nt know how this boat would act. After my test sail
with the previous owner and having the rudder not respond then being rounded up by the wind, was a little nerve racking.
And being a newbie I'm not quite sure what the proper etiquet is for solving one's problems regarding this situation would be, for instance sailing with only the genoa or the jib.
One thing is for sure sailing is in my blood, and I have the determination to
succeed.

Thanks again!! Sheboygan 28.5

 

[S. Sauer]

Getting the feel of the 28.5

Sheboygan,
The 28.5 should sail well with a 110 jib and the tape drive main in reasonable comfort in winds up to the mid 20's (higher when you have more experience and learn how and when to reef the main). The deep 5'-2" keel will not be as tender as the 4' shoal draft, but either version will need momentum to tack thru the wind on just a main sail.

Pick a day with 10 knots or less wind and motor at about 3-4 knots into the wind. Before raising the main, tighten the outhaul hand tight, then raise the main with halyard hand tight enough to just remove any horizontal wrinkles aft of the mast. Set the traveler to the center and sheet in the main with the boom within 18 inches of the centerline. This should be a decent shape for a beginer to get the feel of the boat. Hoist the 110, again hand tight plus maybe just a little tension with the winch, then bearoff and shut off the engine when you feel comfortable. Sheet in the jib sheet till you have a firm feel to the jib and sheet in progressively more as you also tighten the main sheet progressively till the boom is close to centered. Steer a little away from the wind, then a little toward the wind till you find a course that feels best for you. Boat speed should improve as you get to the best course and best sail setting up wind.

Note where the mast head wind direction indicator is pointing before you tack. With at least 3-4 knots of boat speed start your tack, then release the jib sheet as the jib comes head to wind and sheet in on the other side using the winch if necessary. Try to duplicate the sail settings on the new tack and maybe let the boat bear off just a little to gain speed.

Don't be too quick to steer up into the wind if the boat starts to heel, just keep a light touch on the wheel and get the feel of the boat accelerating, use enough pressure on the wheel to keep from rounding up in the puffs. The 28.5 has a big rudder and responds too quickly to the wheel, almost like power steering.

And check us out on the www.huntertwentyeightfive.com web site.

 

[saylers]

Reefing is the key

Based off my experience which was for 10 years a Laser II, before that a Laser (racing), and then to a Hunter 23.5... and now a 310...the Hunter is really tender no doubt about it. It can become over powered quick and if your not used to it can come across as a bad sailing experience. However, all is well if you reef early. I reef in winds that range in gusts from 13-15 knots. Not because of lack of experience. It makes for an enjoyable experience. Especially if you don't have the rail bait to help keep down the 25 degrees at which I feel a little uncomfortable with a cruiser that is so tender. Sometimes depending on direction of wind because of the lake I am on -it is a good idea to reef earlier. Reefing gets you out on the water MORE and makes it more enjoyable. My experience is a Hunter is great in light winds.....and yes it is tender.

 

[Sheboygan 28.5]

Great encouragement

Just a quick thank you for your encouragement!!
It can be a little overwhelming at times trying to learn a new boat,I trained
on 35ft Pearson, and the way they both sail is like night and day, plus my
wife was expecting some thing a little different. So I am under a bit of preasure to meet her expectations.
But thanks for the great advise, I'll be sure to put that into practice this
weekend.

Thanks again!! Sheboygan 28.5