Just purchased an O'Day 272 and the mariona launched it for free, but they want $125 bucks to tune the rig. What are the specs on this. Is there a manual or other guidelines. I certainly could do this myself with a little advice or tips. I've heard that it is best not to over tighten or "race" tune this particular model(272) or chainblock/bulkhead problems could arise. Any advice welcome Craig - E-amil = Crellers@hotmail.com
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Jim Sullivan
Tuning the rig
Craig: In the books, Sail Power (Knopf 1975) and the Sailing Encyclopedia (Harper and Row) mid 1970's there are basic directions for rig tuning. Even though those books are quite old most of the basic's are as accurate today as when they were when first published. A local library might be a source of these or other books on the subject. It is my opinion that the knowledge is good to have even if you have the yard tune your rig. Once gained, you will know how to tune out excessive weather helm or snug shrowds that have become loose and in general become a more competent self sufficient sailor. I hope this helps you enjoy the sailing experience more. Good luck and good sailing. Jim
Craig: In the books, Sail Power (Knopf 1975) and the Sailing Encyclopedia (Harper and Row) mid 1970's there are basic directions for rig tuning. Even though those books are quite old most of the basic's are as accurate today as when they were when first published. A local library might be a source of these or other books on the subject. It is my opinion that the knowledge is good to have even if you have the yard tune your rig. Once gained, you will know how to tune out excessive weather helm or snug shrowds that have become loose and in general become a more competent self sufficient sailor. I hope this helps you enjoy the sailing experience more. Good luck and good sailing. Jim
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Don Evans
Rig Tuning
Craig, IMHO tuning a rig is a science, not an art. Its all based on numbers, not feel. Having said that, I know most sailors tune from feel. Following vague words or mushy phrases from manuals is not teaching you anything. What I have learned from rig tuning comes from the experts, and using the tools to guide you. I would strongly recommend you purchase a Loos rig tension guage, (West carries them among others) and learn how to use it. Go to Brion Toss's site, and buy his video, or reference books on the subject. Hang out at the "Spar Talk" site and get a feel for advice on the subject. Read some of the posts and great advice there. Learn some of the science, and then practise on your rig. Its a great learning experience. Good luck. Don
Craig, IMHO tuning a rig is a science, not an art. Its all based on numbers, not feel. Having said that, I know most sailors tune from feel. Following vague words or mushy phrases from manuals is not teaching you anything. What I have learned from rig tuning comes from the experts, and using the tools to guide you. I would strongly recommend you purchase a Loos rig tension guage, (West carries them among others) and learn how to use it. Go to Brion Toss's site, and buy his video, or reference books on the subject. Hang out at the "Spar Talk" site and get a feel for advice on the subject. Read some of the posts and great advice there. Learn some of the science, and then practise on your rig. Its a great learning experience. Good luck. Don
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Vic
That all said ...
1. once the mast is up you are half way there. 2. the 272 is a straightforward boat with no real racing complexity 3. no forward lean ... but you need to back off from the boat to really see where it is in regard to the waterline. 4. forestay tight enough so that there is some sag but not too much so that the sail looks like crap in 15 kts. 5. use the main halyard as a measuring tape from one side to the other to be sure mast is perpendicular (port/starboard) to deck. 6. Start with the outside stays first 7. only tune the inside stays to make the mast straight with no bends. 8. Don't worry about about down wind stays looking loose in decent wind ... this is not an off shore race boat. 9. Better to be slightly loose because the chainplate design is not offshore mentality. i had to back one of mine up with a couple of feet of 1/2 in marine plywood and longer bolts and there is still a little more flexibility than i like. 10. I don't think most boatyards have a hint as to really tuning a mast. Either it is done by a Melges kid known for breaking masts ... or a cruiser old guy who sort of does it like above. Generally the old guy ends up doing the race boats and the kid ends up doing the cruisers. In any case tune it up and try to take notes in 10 kts. then maybe back off the top of the mast an inch and try it again ... see if it makes much difference ... maybe in the ability to tack through. maybe take up some of the slack in the downwind stays and see if that makes much difference. Each boat has a compromise tune ... and you have to spend some time working it out. And for sure you just can do it sitting at a dock. Vic "Seven"
1. once the mast is up you are half way there. 2. the 272 is a straightforward boat with no real racing complexity 3. no forward lean ... but you need to back off from the boat to really see where it is in regard to the waterline. 4. forestay tight enough so that there is some sag but not too much so that the sail looks like crap in 15 kts. 5. use the main halyard as a measuring tape from one side to the other to be sure mast is perpendicular (port/starboard) to deck. 6. Start with the outside stays first 7. only tune the inside stays to make the mast straight with no bends. 8. Don't worry about about down wind stays looking loose in decent wind ... this is not an off shore race boat. 9. Better to be slightly loose because the chainplate design is not offshore mentality. i had to back one of mine up with a couple of feet of 1/2 in marine plywood and longer bolts and there is still a little more flexibility than i like. 10. I don't think most boatyards have a hint as to really tuning a mast. Either it is done by a Melges kid known for breaking masts ... or a cruiser old guy who sort of does it like above. Generally the old guy ends up doing the race boats and the kid ends up doing the cruisers. In any case tune it up and try to take notes in 10 kts. then maybe back off the top of the mast an inch and try it again ... see if it makes much difference ... maybe in the ability to tack through. maybe take up some of the slack in the downwind stays and see if that makes much difference. Each boat has a compromise tune ... and you have to spend some time working it out. And for sure you just can do it sitting at a dock. Vic "Seven"
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Tom Ehmke
Vic, can you elaborate on no.3.
I think your rigging info is right on. Some of it is in the 272 manual, and the rest is common sense for a sailor who cruises and isn't trying to overstress the rigging. I don't understand your point #3 about getting off the boat. I don't see what that has got to do with mast bend. Help me out. I always bend the top of the mast just a little towards the stern when setting up the rig in the spring, and I don't mess with it thereafter. Does your boat have a backstay adjuster? Tom
I think your rigging info is right on. Some of it is in the 272 manual, and the rest is common sense for a sailor who cruises and isn't trying to overstress the rigging. I don't understand your point #3 about getting off the boat. I don't see what that has got to do with mast bend. Help me out. I always bend the top of the mast just a little towards the stern when setting up the rig in the spring, and I don't mess with it thereafter. Does your boat have a backstay adjuster? Tom
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Vic
More on #3
Only problem when on the boat is the real fore aft trim of the boat and what we perceive to be vertical from the boat itself. In the 272 ... without an inboard and a full tank of diesel for example ... it is a little more bow heavy. In the le with a full tank of diesel, the diesel, and the double 27 batteries way aft you are probably stern heavy and even though it may seem that your mast is not leaning forward ... it may be. Standard rig on the 272 doesn't offer backstay adjustment ... and then of course with the roller furling I prefer to keep an eye on a pretty fixed tension to reduce sag on the furling. There is really no mast bend to consider as it seems as solid and straight as a short telephone pole. But in any case there is no way out but to keep trying a few corrections one at a time to see just what they do. My current tuning problem is to make tacking more positive which is a little harder with the wheel model than the tiller. Vic "Seven"
Only problem when on the boat is the real fore aft trim of the boat and what we perceive to be vertical from the boat itself. In the 272 ... without an inboard and a full tank of diesel for example ... it is a little more bow heavy. In the le with a full tank of diesel, the diesel, and the double 27 batteries way aft you are probably stern heavy and even though it may seem that your mast is not leaning forward ... it may be. Standard rig on the 272 doesn't offer backstay adjustment ... and then of course with the roller furling I prefer to keep an eye on a pretty fixed tension to reduce sag on the furling. There is really no mast bend to consider as it seems as solid and straight as a short telephone pole. But in any case there is no way out but to keep trying a few corrections one at a time to see just what they do. My current tuning problem is to make tacking more positive which is a little harder with the wheel model than the tiller. Vic "Seven"
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Vic
CAN't do it sitting at the dock ...
I re read my orginal note on this string ... last sentence should have said "You CAN'T fine tune just by sitting at a dock" ... which seems to be the boatyard approach. Vic "Seven"
I re read my orginal note on this string ... last sentence should have said "You CAN'T fine tune just by sitting at a dock" ... which seems to be the boatyard approach. Vic "Seven"
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Tom Ehmke
More for Vic
Vic, Thanks for the reply. A couple of comments. I own a 272 (not LE) with the diesel and two bank battery system, and the boat is and always has been heavy in the bow. The amount of fuel in the tank doesn't make much difference. I carry an inflatable dink in the quarter berth and mount the dink outboard on the port stern rail... still heavy in the bow. A theory offered by Justin is that ODay intended that crew weight be the counterbalance to the heaviness in the bow. Also, she has a slight list to starboard which I attribute to the head, galley, settee storage, batteries, and lazerette storage all on the starboard side counterbalanced only by the water tank to port which is not always topped off. As a result of the list, she sails better on starboard tack because she is more upright. This is all verified when I clean the boat when she is in the water. The usual crud at the bootstripe is higher on the starboard side than on the port side, and higher at the bow than the stern. Tom
Vic, Thanks for the reply. A couple of comments. I own a 272 (not LE) with the diesel and two bank battery system, and the boat is and always has been heavy in the bow. The amount of fuel in the tank doesn't make much difference. I carry an inflatable dink in the quarter berth and mount the dink outboard on the port stern rail... still heavy in the bow. A theory offered by Justin is that ODay intended that crew weight be the counterbalance to the heaviness in the bow. Also, she has a slight list to starboard which I attribute to the head, galley, settee storage, batteries, and lazerette storage all on the starboard side counterbalanced only by the water tank to port which is not always topped off. As a result of the list, she sails better on starboard tack because she is more upright. This is all verified when I clean the boat when she is in the water. The usual crud at the bootstripe is higher on the starboard side than on the port side, and higher at the bow than the stern. Tom
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Vic
back to Tom ...
Never thought about the "crud ring trim" ... will check it out in a couple of weeks when i will get to see my boat again. Was saying just the other day that the bottom paint line needed to be adjusted higher the next time I do the bottom. The LE has the batteries aft port right up under the deck ... and then add the edson wheel package. I wonder if anyone has really raked the mast back (say 3 in.) and come up with a real handling gain? If Justin is right on the bow heavy ... I would hate to have an 9 hp outboard only ... that probably would drop the stern weight another 150 lb. with all the motor, mounts, exhaust etc. The wheel also doesn't have the full range of a tiller and it tacks better to port than starboard ... actually somewhat different turning radius port vs. starboard. I think it effects the tacking ability and I am trying to see if eventually I can trim to offset some of that tack hesitation. Vic "Seven"
Never thought about the "crud ring trim" ... will check it out in a couple of weeks when i will get to see my boat again. Was saying just the other day that the bottom paint line needed to be adjusted higher the next time I do the bottom. The LE has the batteries aft port right up under the deck ... and then add the edson wheel package. I wonder if anyone has really raked the mast back (say 3 in.) and come up with a real handling gain? If Justin is right on the bow heavy ... I would hate to have an 9 hp outboard only ... that probably would drop the stern weight another 150 lb. with all the motor, mounts, exhaust etc. The wheel also doesn't have the full range of a tiller and it tacks better to port than starboard ... actually somewhat different turning radius port vs. starboard. I think it effects the tacking ability and I am trying to see if eventually I can trim to offset some of that tack hesitation. Vic "Seven"
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