26S aft berth - mattress

[walt]

I finally got around to trying to make the aft berth mattress more comfortable and have heard in the past here that Memory foam works well. So I bought the 3 inch King size foam topper at Walmart. if you cut it efficiently, you can get two parts that are similar to the stock mattress.

I’m thinking of just putting the 3 inch memory foam on the bottom (no cover on the memory foam since I have cut the shapes to match the pad already in the boat) and then just set the stock mattress (which has some either cheap or worn out foam in it) on top of the memory foam..

The memory foam will add 23 pounds to the back of the boat - which I don’t like.. but it sure seems like an improvement in comfort. Why not..

 

[Macboy]

I'm not sure what you paid but I had been looking for good pricing on foam for another project (crash pads) and hands-down the best pricing I found for custom foam orders was at foambymail.com. I'm in Canada though so I used canada.foambymail.com but I digress.

All that aside, I think a combination of densities is the key to making these boats a bit more comfortable. I find memory foam to be too hot and snug for my liking. I'll be ordering cut foam from these guys for the upcoming season. If the wife and kids don't get a comfortable night's sleep we won't have the boat for too long....

 

[Sumner]

I'm not sure what you paid but I had been looking for good pricing on foam for another project (crash pads) and hands-down the best pricing I found for custom foam orders was at foambymail.com. I'm in Canada though so I used canada.foambymail.com but I digress.

All that aside, I think a combination of densities is the key to making these boats a bit more comfortable. I find memory foam to be too hot and snug for my liking. I'll be ordering cut foam from these guys for the upcoming season. If the wife and kids don't get a comfortable night's sleep we won't have the boat for too long....

We ordered quite a bit of foam from foambymail.com in the states and then found their sister site....

http://www.foamdistributing.com/

.... that has even better pricing. You need to cut it but it is easy with a cheap electric carving knife. See if they also have a Canadian division,

Sumner

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[walt]

I paid about $150 for the 3 inch king size memory foam.

I have not slept on the two pads yet.. but I’m suspecting memory foam is good but maybe not the best choice for me (interesting about the too hot - too snug - mine will be under a pad so maybe not so hot). It is sort of neat stuff as your body will make a custom indent in the foam which recovers in the "minute time frame" when you get up. But.. that 3 inch thick will also compress to not much thickness at all. It compresses slowly but it still compresses. Once it compresses, it may still be whatever other foam you have in the layer that keeps things comfortable.

I’m going with this (bought it and aleady cut it up).. but am wondering if 4 inches of a good quality somewhat dense foam might have been better and also saved some weight..

Just guessing as all I’ve slept on is the original pad which worked ok 8 years ago but I’m apparently more sensitive now.

Any other configurations that people have been happy with? Im wondering if I should have gone with two 2 inch pads of a good quality conventional foam. I would use the original pad covers on one of the two inch pads and put the second two inch pad under this??

 

[Sumner]

....Any other configurations that people have been happy with? Im wondering if I should have gone with two 2 inch pads of a good quality conventional foam. I would use the original pad covers on one of the two inch pads and put the second two inch pad under this??

I think this is one of the hardest things to recommend to someone as what one person loves another hates.

Some years back I spent a big hunk of money for a really good memory foam mattress for the house we had in AZ at the time. I never really liked it but some people love the stuff.

Ruth and I both liked a very firm bed so bought the Lux High Quality foam from first the foamfactory for the Mac and then after liking it so much bought more for the teardrop trailer and then for the Endeavour and then for our bedroom but from their cheaper site that I mentioned above.

What we liked about it for the boat so much was that 3 inches of the Lux High Quality ....

http://www.foamdistributing.com/LHQ/lux-high-quality-foam.html

... is dense/firm enough that you don't go through it, even kneeling on it, and being only 3 inches think gives you another inch of head room. An inch doesn't seem like a lot but it can be a big difference on our boats with the limited headroom both in the V-berth, where we would sleep, or in the aft berth. Used the same foam for the cushions on the settees. Now saying that someone else might think this foam is too firm as it it their firmest foam.

You can get a full sheet of the Lux that is 3 X 76 X 82 for $122.25 delivered and no tax. They have it in any thickness you want. It also has the longest lifespan rating of 12-18 years. Some of the foam out there is rated for a lot shorter lifespan.

They do have specs on the foam on their site under each type (click on resources) and also an overall description page of the different foams that is good even if you don't buy from them ....

http://www.foamdistributing.com/polyurethane-foam-sheets.html

I think the two different types of foam one on top of the other might be a good idea for someone who likes a much softer cushion or mattress. Put say 2 inches of the high density on the bottom and something softer on top of it. The other one I'd look at for the bottom is the Dry Fast on their site that has been great in the cockpit. It feels a little like memory foam in that you sit on it and it seems very firm then you start to sink in some. We would be in the cockpit day after day and loved it especially if you are some place like the northwest or Florida were you get either rain or dew almost every day. Using the right fabric (we used sailrite's Phifertex Plus Vinyl Fabric) the cushions dry very quickly. Made new cushions for the Endeavour that were exactly the same.

They send free samples but they are so small you really can't tell much. you need a piece big enough to at least sit on. They also have other types of foam like the memory and the dry fast that works really well in the cockpit,

Sumner

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[patrickfarley]

After reading Sumner's post a couple of years ago I purchased some dense foam and layered it with my v-berth and seats. I found that It works great for me. I am a large person and even on my knees I don't completely compress the foam. I think comfort with different densities is partially determined by how large you are. The density I have is great for me but a little too firm for my daughters.

 

[Chris & Lenore]

We have used a 4 inch topper for 6 years....

Tried all the other foams, pads, self inflating mattresses.
But the topper (3 inches medium latex and 1 inch memory foam) - Obusform brand - $90 at Wallmart beats anything we have ever tried.

It even came with a zip on cover that was rubberized on the bottom so it doesn't slide around.

CHris

 

[walt]

Chris, I think what you have is about what I will end up with and I think it will be very comfortable.

If I were to do this again.. I am trying to lighten my boat especially in the rear and memory foam is somewhat of a heavy luxury. Because of the weight, I wouldn’t put memory foam in. Because I already bought it.. 1.5 inch thick MF is going in. I bought 3 inch thick and even if I destroy them in the process, Im going to make a jig and cut the 3 inch pad into two 1.5 inch pads (hopefully not an expensive mistake).

These foams are sort of like a shock absorber (dampening) and a spring. Memory foam has a lot of shock absorber dampening but not much spring. The original foam has neither shock absorber or spring. So MF needs to be used in conjunction with a foam with much better spring and since MF somewhat wraps around you, MF probably needs to go on the top layer.

So.. I took the old aft berth foam out of the stock pad bags and I am hoping to put back in the bag (still in good shape) the 1.5 inch MF pad. I will then still need to get a 3 inch pad probably something like Sumner or others above posted. The 1.5 inch MF in the bag will go on top, the 3 inch pad will go on the bottom.

FYI, I weighed the cover, old foam and new MF pad. These weights are for the total mattress (2 pieces).

Original pad covers 5.4 pounds
Original foam pads 2 7/8 thick 9.6 pounds
MF pads 1.5 inch thick 11.5 pounds
New 3 inch pads I don’t have yet ????

Sumner, you are right about the height of the pad. Every year I could swear the cave opening to get to the aft berth gets smaller and smaller on its own.. (its still actually not that bad.. but it used to be huge)

 

[Chief RA]

The 2 different density concept is how I went. The stock sponge was OK but wanted to improve it more. I laid 2 ea. 1/2" layers of carpet sponge underneath it and it is great! That great density type sponge on the bottom assures your bones don't bottom out through it.
Walt: I would try your new sponge in the slip covers and then add 1 to 1.5" of carpet sponge beneath.
Chief

 

[walt]

I think I am going with the 3 inch Lux regular for the bottom pad. I think that column 25% lb indicates how "stiff" the pad will be and the Lux regular is the same as the Lux hq but its a fair amount lighter. It doesn’t last as long.. but if I’m lucky I will sleep in that boat maybe 30 more times.. I think the foam will outlast me (and very easy to replace)..

The last entry is some memory foam, you can see it has a low "25% lb" number and I think this reflects what I also noticed about it - not much stiffness. Estimated weight is for a 3 inch thick pad with the same dimensions as the stock aft mattress.

Weight estimate..

Old setup

bags 5.4
old 3 inch POS pads 9.6
other pads (which didnt do much) 5

Total for old setup 20 pounds

New setup

bags 5.4
1.5 inch memory foam 11.5 pounds
Lux Regular 3 inch thick 13.2

Total for new setup 30.1 pounds..

So I think this will add about 10 pounds total - but in the rear of the boat which I was trying to avoid..

 

[Sumner]

...I think that column 25% lb indicates how "stiff" the pad will be and the Lux regular is the same as the Lux hq but its a fair amount lighter. .

Yep they should be the same firmness according to this (explains the ILD number)....

http://www.ergoflex-usa.com/ergoflex/377/What+does+the+ILD+rating+of+a+memory+foam+mattress+mean?

It will work fine if you like firm, which I do. If it ends up too firm put 1 inch of something softer on top of it maybe.

Sumner

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[walt]

I generally like firm.. the pad will also have the 1.5 inches of memory foam on top.

The problem now is that I dont go over the $100 for the free shipping.. always something..

 

[Sumner]

I generally like firm.. the pad will also have the 1.5 inches of memory foam on top.

The problem now is that I dont go over the $100 for the free shipping.. always something..

I think it is still something like $15 or so but if you have to pay that then maybe buy something else that gets you there and have something to show for it.

I think I mentioned that are mattress and seat cushions are only 3 inches thick with nothing else on them,

Sumner

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[finding41]

I wouldn't worry too much about the extra weight that memory foam has. I had all memory foam in one of the boats and still won allot on Wed nights. If you are conserned with weight distribution... Another anchor up front will even things out. Or 2 gal of water = 20lb.
I didn't like the memory foam. Too huggy and too warm.
I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet for the charter boats. The bonded foam as a bottom layer has me thinking though. I don't plan on memory foam at all.

 

[centerline]

I generally like firm.. the pad will also have the 1.5 inches of memory foam on top.

The problem now is that I dont go over the $100 for the free shipping.. always something..

Ive "built" a few different matteress,s for my RV's and boats over the years and i can tell you that using memory foam with regular foam, the memory has to go on top of regular foam to get any decent benefit from it...

But thats still not the best option...

a 3-4" resturant grade foam with 2-3" of regular foam over it is by far the better option. It makes the bed feel plush.... its a bed you wont want to get out of in the morning.
Its impossible to get a plush feeling matteress with anything less than 5" of foam.... reasonably comfortable, yes... but not plush...

 

[Kestle]

Ive "built" a few different matteress,s for my RV's and boats over the years and i can tell you that using memory foam with regular foam, the memory has to go on top of regular foam to get any decent benefit from it... But thats still not the best option... a 3-4" resturant grade foam with 2-3" of regular foam over it is by far the better option. It makes the bed feel plush.... its a bed you wont want to get out of in the morning. Its impossible to get a plush feeling matteress with anything less than 5" of foam.... reasonably comfortable, yes... but not plush...

Could you give some examples of restaurant foam?

Jeff

 

[chp]

We use a 5" foam and memory foam mattress from Ikea. It uses 2 different bonded foams and is very comfortable. It does make it snug getting in and out, but it is very doable. I cut the mattress in half so I could stack the front one on top of the back. This clears room to get to the storage under the mattress. I also had to cut out the foam around the ballast tank valve. It came with a full zippered cover which I had to cut and sew some material on the ends where I cut the mattress in half. I'm not worried about the weight since I don't race and there is only the 2 of us.

 

[walt]

CHP, after messing with my mattress, I guess yours must be real comfortable. I’m liking the relatively thin layer of soft (and "squishy" if you like memory foam) on the top layer and then some stiffer bulk foam on the bottom.

Regarding the weight, I have had this boat (26S) for about 8 years now and I guess just trying something new with it weight wise is keeping the ownership a little fresher.

The 26S is barely worth trying to make as fast as possible - but it somewhat is. Somewhat hard to tell from the picture where the original design center of gravity would be but I’m going by three things..

1. Light is fast. Adding weight to balance weight is a last resort if no other option. If you have to add weight, the best spot for it is where it works best as ballast.
2. when the boat moves through the water, the hull generates lift and this helps when you get up near theoretical hull speed.. I don’t know if this is true or not but I think a weight distribution that resembles an airfoil shape is going to be best for minimum drag while generating lift. This might but the boats CG slightly forward of the centerboard pivot. The blunt end of the transom will also drag along water if there is a lot of weight back there.
3. Weight as ballast gives the best bang for the buck when it’s near the widest part of the boat. This gives the highest moment arm of the ballast weight working against the boats center of buoyancy (which moves out to the side as the boat heels even a little). This might put the boats CG slightly behind the boats centerboard pivot and this also looks to be about where they put the water ballast CG.

Anyhow.. this is part of what is making the boat fun for me now but I don’t think I’m having more fun than anyone else taking different approaches to how they customize the boat.. just something I’m messing with..

 

[walt]

I’m about as far as I can go on this now - don’t have the bottom 3 inch (or maybe 2 inch) stiff foam yet and the boat is almost 900 miles away.

What I have now is a lot different than what was in the first post and I had to cut the 3 inch memory foam down I initially purchased (not knowing what I do now) to 1.5 inch and it wasn’t pretty (picture 2 shows the jig).. I put the 1.5 inch memory foam in the original bag. We tried this yesterday putting the new memory foam pad in the bag on top of the old foam mattress (way too soft) and it was really comfortable. Got me wondering if maybe I only need 2 inches of some stiff foam like we discussed earlier for the bottom pad..

In one picture, you can see how I cut the pads and the width you need to get the two pads is 74 inches - which is a king size pad and also the full size sheets from the foam place also work for this (82x76).

In the fouth picture you can see the new 1.5 inch memory foam pad tucked into the original mattress pad that came with the boat.

If I go with a 3 inch bottom pad, the total for my mattress will be 4.5 inches. It is about 3 inches shown in the first picture. However, if I went with a 2 inch stiff bottom pad, the new height would be 3.5 inches total.. but I think I’m still going with the 3 inch bottom pad and I think it will be very comfy. The new bottom pad (likey this stuff http://www.foamdistributing.com/LR_1/lux-regular-foam.html ) will have no cover.. just cut that same shape as the memory foam pad that went in the bag.

One final thing.. I keep hearing "warm" for memory foam and its a negitive thing. Since Im usually freezing my axx off boat camping during the winter in Az (lows 45 to 55F).. Im now wondering if this might actually be a really good thing..

 

[Chris & Lenore]

So here is the easy way to try before you commit...

Just FYI, the 4 inch "topper" I use only has 1 inch memory foam (thicker and you can't roll over). The other 3 inches is medium latex. Medium is as firm as most people like it (even the ones who want "firm"). True firm latex is like sleeping non a plank.

Anyway - go to Wallmart and buy the "topper" I mentioned - take it home and lay on it. If you don't like it, you can return it.

Bonus of the topper is the zip on bag with rubber coated bottom so the mattress stays in place.

Chris