In the 240/260 owners manual, Hunter issues many dire warnings about ballast tank freezing if the boat is left in the water with the tank full during the winter. They claim that even if the surrounding water never freezes, the insulating effect of the hull will negate any benefit derived from the warmer temperature of the surrounding water (all this assumes air temps colder than normal). The question is: has anyone ever heard of someone whose boat was damaged by tank freezing? My good friend Dave Condon (yes, he sold me the boat) insists that in the VA/NC area this is a non-issue for boats left in the water. Dave is usually right about these things, but alas, I am a true skeptic. My boat is new(purchased last summer) and resides in a slip on Kerr Lake in Townsville, NC (VA-NC border). The lake water there never freezes. however, we are having a much colder than normal winter with temps staying in the low 30s for days at a time and falling into the teens at night. Has anyone had any practical experience with this? Now for a confession: being the skeptic that I am (and being prone to minimize risks), I took matters into hand yesterday and pumped the ballast tank dry. It was easy to do (just use a small water pump with garden hose fittings, insert one end through the vent hole in the tank and run the other end to the sink drain, plug it in and watch it go. takes about an hour with a 1/12 HP Flotec brand pump) and I am already sleeping much better. When the weather warms up in Feb, and it always does here, all I have to do is open the valve and re-flood the tank prior to sailing. Of course, the boat now rides several inches higher in it's slip, but adjustments to lines and fenders took care of that. I see no other risk associated with leaving the tank empty while the boat is securely tied up. Comments anyone? Am I being overly paranoid? Was this all a waste of time? As someone who has had a few spots of bad luck over the years, I figure if there was one boat in the marina that was going to freeze up, it would be mine! Paul Jordan, Mithrandir
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
No worries IF...
the temps only fall below freezing overnight, with daytime highs above freezing. Overnight just isn't enough time for the air temperature to offset the water temperature. However, a sustained--several days--hard freeze during which the night time lows reach the teens or below and the daytime highs never get above freezing is another story. When that happens, every system on a boat--ballast tanks, water tanks, holding tank, toilets, plumbing--that's vulnerable to freeze damage is in danger, whether the water freezes or not. I can't fault you for draining the tanks, though...'tis far better to err on the side of caution than to risk damage if the weather forecast turns out to be wrong.
the temps only fall below freezing overnight, with daytime highs above freezing. Overnight just isn't enough time for the air temperature to offset the water temperature. However, a sustained--several days--hard freeze during which the night time lows reach the teens or below and the daytime highs never get above freezing is another story. When that happens, every system on a boat--ballast tanks, water tanks, holding tank, toilets, plumbing--that's vulnerable to freeze damage is in danger, whether the water freezes or not. I can't fault you for draining the tanks, though...'tis far better to err on the side of caution than to risk damage if the weather forecast turns out to be wrong.
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Sam Kurtz
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Bruce
Just an Idea
Just an idea - couldn't you dump a container of salt into the water ballast tank? That would keep the water from freezing, and you'd still have the weight of the water in the tank to offset the weight of the rig. I'm definitely not an expert in this, but is it worth considering?
Just an idea - couldn't you dump a container of salt into the water ballast tank? That would keep the water from freezing, and you'd still have the weight of the water in the tank to offset the weight of the rig. I'm definitely not an expert in this, but is it worth considering?
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
You'd need a LOT of salt, Bruce...
I think it would make more sense to just dump the recommended amount of non-toxic marine/RV anti-freeze ("the pink stuff") in the tank. And while I have the floor...you'll hear people recommend cheap vodka as a subsitute for "the pink stuff" in fresh water systems. A very bad idea... The alcohol in the vodka is damaging to hoses and the rubber and neoprene parts in your water pump. . And an expensive one, too... Those of us who like to keep our Stoli in the freezer know that 80 proof vodka won't freeze...but a 50-50 mix of 80 proof vodka and water certainly will. So unless you put about a 2-1 ratio of vodka to water in the tank, it's not gonna protect the system anyway. Antifreeze is a whole lot cheaper.
I think it would make more sense to just dump the recommended amount of non-toxic marine/RV anti-freeze ("the pink stuff") in the tank. And while I have the floor...you'll hear people recommend cheap vodka as a subsitute for "the pink stuff" in fresh water systems. A very bad idea... The alcohol in the vodka is damaging to hoses and the rubber and neoprene parts in your water pump. . And an expensive one, too... Those of us who like to keep our Stoli in the freezer know that 80 proof vodka won't freeze...but a 50-50 mix of 80 proof vodka and water certainly will. So unless you put about a 2-1 ratio of vodka to water in the tank, it's not gonna protect the system anyway. Antifreeze is a whole lot cheaper.
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Paul Jordan
Many thanks and more info..
Many thanks to Peggy for making me feel I am NOT overly paranoid. My only real concern in pumping the tank dry was making the boat too light and hence, topheavy. However, I have a number of lines on it and it seems quite stable (except when you step on or off -- whoa!) I double checked the valve after pumping the water out and snugged it down. Then, just to be safe, I added several gallons of the pink stuff (anti-freeze) into the tank. I figured if there was some seepage that the pink stuff would take care of it. So, see, I am even more paranoid than you think.
Many thanks to Peggy for making me feel I am NOT overly paranoid. My only real concern in pumping the tank dry was making the boat too light and hence, topheavy. However, I have a number of lines on it and it seems quite stable (except when you step on or off -- whoa!) I double checked the valve after pumping the water out and snugged it down. Then, just to be safe, I added several gallons of the pink stuff (anti-freeze) into the tank. I figured if there was some seepage that the pink stuff would take care of it. So, see, I am even more paranoid than you think.
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Paul Jordan
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Russ King
Anti-freeze a good idea
Adding anti-freeze to the (almost) empty tank is an excellent idea. As crazy as it sounds, draining the tank could increase the chance of something freezing. You can never completely drain the ballast tank dry; there will always be some moisture in it, and that moisture can freeze. Cold air temperatures could cause the little bit to freeze. In a way, the problem is that it's easier to make a little icecube (from the little bit of water left) than a big one (with the entire ballast tank flooded). Larger volumes of water take longer (require more heat loss) to freeze. Just as large pots of water take more time to boil -- need more heat -- than small pots of water. I don't know how much you may increase the risk of freezing, but I think it is increased a bit. But the anti-freeze in a drained tank should cover almost every situation.
Adding anti-freeze to the (almost) empty tank is an excellent idea. As crazy as it sounds, draining the tank could increase the chance of something freezing. You can never completely drain the ballast tank dry; there will always be some moisture in it, and that moisture can freeze. Cold air temperatures could cause the little bit to freeze. In a way, the problem is that it's easier to make a little icecube (from the little bit of water left) than a big one (with the entire ballast tank flooded). Larger volumes of water take longer (require more heat loss) to freeze. Just as large pots of water take more time to boil -- need more heat -- than small pots of water. I don't know how much you may increase the risk of freezing, but I think it is increased a bit. But the anti-freeze in a drained tank should cover almost every situation.
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Peggie Hall/Head Mistress
A few words about draining tanks etc
Too many people rely solely on...the water pump to drain their fresh water systems...the pump out to drain their holding tanks...the drain to empty their ballast tanks. NONE of the above completely empty anything...and Russ is right...a little left in can do more damage than leaving all the liquid in...'cuz the little bit is what's left in a small drain to freeze and crack the thru-hull...freeze and crack tank fittings...freeze and crack a toilet bowl...or a faucet. Every tank should have some kind of access that allows you to get into it with a manual bilge pump and a sponge, if not with a wet-vac...and every boat owner should take the time and make the effort TO get every last drop of water out of the system...Murphy was an optimist! Anti-freeze should be considered a back up to use when you can't dry out the system...it should never be your first line of defense against freeze damage.
Too many people rely solely on...the water pump to drain their fresh water systems...the pump out to drain their holding tanks...the drain to empty their ballast tanks. NONE of the above completely empty anything...and Russ is right...a little left in can do more damage than leaving all the liquid in...'cuz the little bit is what's left in a small drain to freeze and crack the thru-hull...freeze and crack tank fittings...freeze and crack a toilet bowl...or a faucet. Every tank should have some kind of access that allows you to get into it with a manual bilge pump and a sponge, if not with a wet-vac...and every boat owner should take the time and make the effort TO get every last drop of water out of the system...Murphy was an optimist! Anti-freeze should be considered a back up to use when you can't dry out the system...it should never be your first line of defense against freeze damage.
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Dave Condon
Freezing:
Paul and I have discussed this but based solely on experience, the VA/NC area does not concern me as to removal of the boat from the lake. During the long cold winter of 1994, two 23.5's were left in the water without my knowledge at Smith Mountian Lake. The water never froze as the tempatures were in the 20's. What I experienced with the two left in the water is that the cabin heated up during the day warming the interior plus the water never froze. If you are on the Great Lakes, then I would pull the boat and drain the tank for sure. It depends on the area and climate. Crazy Dave Codnon
Paul and I have discussed this but based solely on experience, the VA/NC area does not concern me as to removal of the boat from the lake. During the long cold winter of 1994, two 23.5's were left in the water without my knowledge at Smith Mountian Lake. The water never froze as the tempatures were in the 20's. What I experienced with the two left in the water is that the cabin heated up during the day warming the interior plus the water never froze. If you are on the Great Lakes, then I would pull the boat and drain the tank for sure. It depends on the area and climate. Crazy Dave Codnon
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Harold Robertson
I was in the same boat
I just finished checking my Hunter 240 on Smith Mountain Lake in Virginia and had no problem with freezing water in the ballast tank. The lake water temp was near 50 degrees and the cabin felt warm in the sun. The air temp has been very cold at night..near 10. I was worried about the ballast tank but no problem was found.
I just finished checking my Hunter 240 on Smith Mountain Lake in Virginia and had no problem with freezing water in the ballast tank. The lake water temp was near 50 degrees and the cabin felt warm in the sun. The air temp has been very cold at night..near 10. I was worried about the ballast tank but no problem was found.
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