While there is active discussion about trailers I thought I'd throw this out. Has anyone modified a Hunter 23.5 trailer to make it a tandem axle trailer? I have a 1993 trailer manufactured by Hunter. I am in agreement with the thought that there are some issues wit the design (maybe that is why they started having Magic-Tilt manufacturing them). I have read a few owner reviews stating the same and some owners have stated that they converted their single axle to a double axle but have not seen any forum discussions on this issue. I recently bought a '94 23.5 because of its trailerability but would like to make some improvements to my existing trailer and not have to buy a new one. My 2000 Dodge Durango owner's manual states that 60% of the trailer weight should be forward of the trailer axle yet a sticker on the trailer states that only 7 to 10% of the trailer weight should be on the tongue. If a second axle was added behind the existing axle without moving the existing axle, I think that would increase the tongue weight slightly but also distribute more of the weight over the new fulcrum point of the trailer. I don't drive like a maniac when I am towing (max 58mph). I have also noticed a slight bend in the logitudinal members of the trailer aft of the axle. I'd like some input. Thanks, Jonathan Costello Heeling Powers
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Why would you add an axle?
If you add another axle you just add more drag and tire problems. A properly balanced single axle is far superior to a tandem axle trailer. You should have at least 10 of the weight on the tongue and up to 15 percent if you still experience sway when trucks pass.
If you add another axle you just add more drag and tire problems. A properly balanced single axle is far superior to a tandem axle trailer. You should have at least 10 of the weight on the tongue and up to 15 percent if you still experience sway when trucks pass.
No to second axle
Jonathan; If you want to add a second axle, that would be your perogative but for me I would not. First lets talk about tongue weight. It is generally accepted that the tongur weight on the trailer should be 7-10 percent. If you decide otherwise, it will put extra wear and tear on the rear tow vehickle axle thus raising the front of the car and screwing up your steerage. Secondly, the axle is in the correct position and designed to carry the weight of the boat. If you want to do anything, then go to a larger or fatter tire that is rated to carry more weight. Most tire failures are due to dry rot, improper air pressure and so forth. Also, make sure your axles are greased. IF you do not have brakes, then you may want to consider purchasing those parts to add to the axle for brakes which I think can be done. You have to look to see if the flange is on the back behind the tire to accomodate this. If not, then a new axle and the surge brake cylinder on the tongue is a suggestion. The boat sits low and the weaving when is braking is less than the 23 wing keel on a trailer as the center of gravity is higher. Should you start to loose control of any trailer without brakes with it weaving, then accelerate to pull it out and then start to brake slowly. This information is based on experience my friend from the first day that the very first Hunter 23.5 sailboat left the factory behind my car. I know these rascals better than most and again this is based on experience. Just another opinion for what it is worth. Cracy Dave Condom
Jonathan; If you want to add a second axle, that would be your perogative but for me I would not. First lets talk about tongue weight. It is generally accepted that the tongur weight on the trailer should be 7-10 percent. If you decide otherwise, it will put extra wear and tear on the rear tow vehickle axle thus raising the front of the car and screwing up your steerage. Secondly, the axle is in the correct position and designed to carry the weight of the boat. If you want to do anything, then go to a larger or fatter tire that is rated to carry more weight. Most tire failures are due to dry rot, improper air pressure and so forth. Also, make sure your axles are greased. IF you do not have brakes, then you may want to consider purchasing those parts to add to the axle for brakes which I think can be done. You have to look to see if the flange is on the back behind the tire to accomodate this. If not, then a new axle and the surge brake cylinder on the tongue is a suggestion. The boat sits low and the weaving when is braking is less than the 23 wing keel on a trailer as the center of gravity is higher. Should you start to loose control of any trailer without brakes with it weaving, then accelerate to pull it out and then start to brake slowly. This information is based on experience my friend from the first day that the very first Hunter 23.5 sailboat left the factory behind my car. I know these rascals better than most and again this is based on experience. Just another opinion for what it is worth. Cracy Dave Condom
I had to do it...
I had to do it, because Swiss law require handbreak (remember we have mountains!). It wasn't possible to add hand the handbreak to the original single axle, so decided to put two new on. (see photo) Advantage is that the boat ride lower (smaller wheels than the orgiginal) and it's easier to launch the boat into water. In my opinion it's also easier to trailer (although very sharp turns might stress the tires). Best Regards Anders
I had to do it, because Swiss law require handbreak (remember we have mountains!). It wasn't possible to add hand the handbreak to the original single axle, so decided to put two new on. (see photo) Advantage is that the boat ride lower (smaller wheels than the orgiginal) and it's easier to launch the boat into water. In my opinion it's also easier to trailer (although very sharp turns might stress the tires). Best Regards Anders
Attachments
Crazy Dave
I've read alot of your comments, and I don't think I have ever disagreed with you until now. Please do not ever tell anyone to accelerate if their trailer starts to sway. This action is a rollover waiting to happen. Imeadiatly lift your foot from the gas pedal, do not attempt to counter steer because chances are you will just make it worse, slowly very slowly decelerate the vehicle. Carl h240 Relentless
I've read alot of your comments, and I don't think I have ever disagreed with you until now. Please do not ever tell anyone to accelerate if their trailer starts to sway. This action is a rollover waiting to happen. Imeadiatly lift your foot from the gas pedal, do not attempt to counter steer because chances are you will just make it worse, slowly very slowly decelerate the vehicle. Carl h240 Relentless
Did Mine
The single axle is rated at #3500 an empty boat is #2000 the trailer is close to #1000 now add all the crap that you have accululated on the boat and it will top out at over #9000, not really but it certainly is over #3500 in my case anyway. Were it not for being on the gulf coast where from time to time you run north to dodge a hurricane and that we are in the military where we move every couple of years and maybe from one end of the country to the other I would not have gone to the trouble. As it turned out we only moved from Biloxi, Mississippi to Fort Walton Beach, Florida. With the second axle the trailer tracks much better and it is much more comforting knowing there are four tires under there. I think there is a description of how I did it in the archives. If it is difficult to be found or if you have any other questions let me know. As a matter of fact I replaced both of my axles and have the original one out here that I need to get rid of if interested let me know that as well.
The single axle is rated at #3500 an empty boat is #2000 the trailer is close to #1000 now add all the crap that you have accululated on the boat and it will top out at over #9000, not really but it certainly is over #3500 in my case anyway. Were it not for being on the gulf coast where from time to time you run north to dodge a hurricane and that we are in the military where we move every couple of years and maybe from one end of the country to the other I would not have gone to the trouble. As it turned out we only moved from Biloxi, Mississippi to Fort Walton Beach, Florida. With the second axle the trailer tracks much better and it is much more comforting knowing there are four tires under there. I think there is a description of how I did it in the archives. If it is difficult to be found or if you have any other questions let me know. As a matter of fact I replaced both of my axles and have the original one out here that I need to get rid of if interested let me know that as well.
Carl,
I do not think Dave is talking about going from 45 to 70 mph. What he advocates makes sense to me to get the trailer straightned out. By accelerating a bit you are the shifting the energy of the swaying momententum to being in line with the tow vehicle and trailer.
I do not think Dave is talking about going from 45 to 70 mph. What he advocates makes sense to me to get the trailer straightned out. By accelerating a bit you are the shifting the energy of the swaying momententum to being in line with the tow vehicle and trailer.
Carl I disagree with you
When a trailer is swaying and you hit the brakes without any trailer brakes, you are subject to loose it. If the trailer is swaying and you still maintain speed, guess what, the trailer still sways and in time it may settle down but in the meantime you will experience a few gray hairs, still possibly loose and/or hit someone else. Good examples are the wing keel boats on single axle trailers without brakes as the center of gravity is much higher. they have the tendacy to sway alot more. I accelerate quickly but slightly to take the swaying out by about 1-2 mile per hour. My experience is base on pulling boats quite a bit for over 25 years of various types from 8 to 35 feet but primaily the trailerables. I lost count a long time ago on the miles after 3,000,000. Therefore, I have alot more experience than you but this is merely an opinion. Crazy Dave Condon
When a trailer is swaying and you hit the brakes without any trailer brakes, you are subject to loose it. If the trailer is swaying and you still maintain speed, guess what, the trailer still sways and in time it may settle down but in the meantime you will experience a few gray hairs, still possibly loose and/or hit someone else. Good examples are the wing keel boats on single axle trailers without brakes as the center of gravity is much higher. they have the tendacy to sway alot more. I accelerate quickly but slightly to take the swaying out by about 1-2 mile per hour. My experience is base on pulling boats quite a bit for over 25 years of various types from 8 to 35 feet but primaily the trailerables. I lost count a long time ago on the miles after 3,000,000. Therefore, I have alot more experience than you but this is merely an opinion. Crazy Dave Condon
Trailer Additional Comments
I really appreciate all the input. I do have hydraulic brakes however after further investigation I found that the brakes are in need of bleeding and servicing (I just bought the boat Easter weekend and have not had the opportunity to go over the trailer in detail). It is safe to say they are not functioning properly. That may be why I experienced so much sway when a truck would pass on the interstate. This is my first trailering experience and my natural tendency was to ease off the gas, not apply the break and hold the wheel steady (wiht white knuckles!)when the trailer started swaying. Is there a need to accelerate (ever so slightly by 1-2 mph) if my trailer brakes are functioning properly? If I accelerate, then my brakes will not engage because there is no force cmpressing the master cylinder. I also had a discussion with someone that said he has seen people fabricate a motor mount on the front of the trailer to transfer that weight to the tongue. Dave, Was the weight of the motor mounted taken into account when the trailer was designed?
I really appreciate all the input. I do have hydraulic brakes however after further investigation I found that the brakes are in need of bleeding and servicing (I just bought the boat Easter weekend and have not had the opportunity to go over the trailer in detail). It is safe to say they are not functioning properly. That may be why I experienced so much sway when a truck would pass on the interstate. This is my first trailering experience and my natural tendency was to ease off the gas, not apply the break and hold the wheel steady (wiht white knuckles!)when the trailer started swaying. Is there a need to accelerate (ever so slightly by 1-2 mph) if my trailer brakes are functioning properly? If I accelerate, then my brakes will not engage because there is no force cmpressing the master cylinder. I also had a discussion with someone that said he has seen people fabricate a motor mount on the front of the trailer to transfer that weight to the tongue. Dave, Was the weight of the motor mounted taken into account when the trailer was designed?
23.5 trailer sway
I agree with Dave. It only takes about 5 mph increase in speed to stop the trailer sway. The stiffness of the sidewalls in the tires and the vehicle frame make a difference. I switched from a minivan to an F150 pickup truck as my tow vehicle. The boat almost never sways behind the truck. The "truck" tires have stiffer sidewalls and don't let the sway get started. If you put tires made for a car on the vehicle, the sway comes back.
I agree with Dave. It only takes about 5 mph increase in speed to stop the trailer sway. The stiffness of the sidewalls in the tires and the vehicle frame make a difference. I switched from a minivan to an F150 pickup truck as my tow vehicle. The boat almost never sways behind the truck. The "truck" tires have stiffer sidewalls and don't let the sway get started. If you put tires made for a car on the vehicle, the sway comes back.
brakes now
I am glad to hear you have brakes but you need to always make sure they work. Greasing is part of that but also check the bearings and the racers inside to see if they are ok. When the trailer starts to sway and you have working brakes, the trailer will push forward thus activating the acutator or hydraulic piston on the front tongue thus causing the trailer to brake. At that point you will feel the back end of the car to go down and slowing as the brakes on the trailer are engaging. Just remember that you should accell if you do not have any brakes for any reason shoud the trailer sway. My suggestion is not to go over 45 unitl you have the experience and not over 55 with the Hunter 23 wing keel brakes or no brakes. Dave condon
I am glad to hear you have brakes but you need to always make sure they work. Greasing is part of that but also check the bearings and the racers inside to see if they are ok. When the trailer starts to sway and you have working brakes, the trailer will push forward thus activating the acutator or hydraulic piston on the front tongue thus causing the trailer to brake. At that point you will feel the back end of the car to go down and slowing as the brakes on the trailer are engaging. Just remember that you should accell if you do not have any brakes for any reason shoud the trailer sway. My suggestion is not to go over 45 unitl you have the experience and not over 55 with the Hunter 23 wing keel brakes or no brakes. Dave condon
non-radial tires & remove outboard
I have heard that your tires should not be radials, as mine are, that the trailer will have less sway with non radials. Also, I always move my outboard, ideally to the towing vehicle or at least into the cabin, if going more than a couple of miles.
I have heard that your tires should not be radials, as mine are, that the trailer will have less sway with non radials. Also, I always move my outboard, ideally to the towing vehicle or at least into the cabin, if going more than a couple of miles.
If You Can Find Them
I doubt ther is anyone around any longer who has bias ply tires in that size. Do make sure that you have trailer tires and not car tires the car tires have a much softer side wall.
I doubt ther is anyone around any longer who has bias ply tires in that size. Do make sure that you have trailer tires and not car tires the car tires have a much softer side wall.
Rick said a mouth full
Rick is right on for those who insist on regular car tires which have a tendancy to poof and then you are up in your too too in alligators. crazy dave
Rick is right on for those who insist on regular car tires which have a tendancy to poof and then you are up in your too too in alligators. crazy dave
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