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2017 Sydney - Hobart

Nov 8, 2010
10,895
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
As predicted by the weather routers based on forecast, the overall corrected time winner came from the Fast 50 group, specifically the TP52 'Ichi Ban'. The TP52s are amazing boats.
 
Sep 15, 2016
480
Catalina 22 Minnesota
So out of curiosity is this race rated via PHRF or something? With so many boats particularly of the smaller size that are not your Maxi racing machines how do they compete alongside one another?
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,895
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
So out of curiosity is this race rated via PHRF or something? With so many boats particularly of the smaller size that are not your Maxi racing machines how do they compete alongside one another?
The Tattersalls Cup, given to the overall winner on handicap, is considered the true champion of the race. Like the vast majority of the major ocean races, it uses IRC system for generating handicaps. Unlike PHRF which is based on 'observed performance', IRC uses boat measurements that are run thru a secret formula.

Interesting, the race also has a division for boats also rated on the more modern ORC rating system, which is VPP based. Amazing fact, the boats that finished 1-2 in the overall Cup standings (via IRC) were reversed in the ORC standings! Go figure.
 
Aug 2, 2010
379
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
Sorry to bring back an old thread here but this case was cited in a discussion elsewhere and I was stretching the anecdote to fully understand. Imagine WO had been 5 seconds earlier and made the tack completely onto a close hauled course prior to CO arrival but due to speeds, CO still had to turn up to avoid collision. It seems to me that the ruling would have been no foul.
Both on starboard and Commanche is now an overtaking boat and must keep clear.
Am I correct?
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,895
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Sorry to bring back an old thread here but this case was cited in a discussion elsewhere and I was stretching the anecdote to fully understand. Imagine WO had been 5 seconds earlier and made the tack completely onto a close hauled course prior to CO arrival but due to speeds, CO still had to turn up to avoid collision. It seems to me that the ruling would have been no foul.
Both on starboard and Commanche is now an overtaking boat and must keep clear.
Am I correct?
5 seconds is a LONG time. Well over a WO11 boatlength at 12 knots.

If WO had 5 extra seconds, she would have spent it of it sailing longer on port, and gotten windward, tacked on top of CO, and not worried about the short-lived overlap as she would have spat CO out.

But lets say same 5, but WO still tacks on CO's line. CO is not required to anticipate losing ROW. When she does lose it, she has to have been let enough time to react at that point in time. Clear astern with 5 extra seconds? No foul at all. 4? No. 3 Hmmmm.
 
Aug 2, 2010
379
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
Thanks for elaborating on the various times. So ultimately the room, or time in this case, to keep clear is the element and half a boat length might not be enough time for the overtaking boat to react. Thinking it through, the only two reasonable reactions by CO would be to go to leeward which may require the main to be eased or to tack onto port, both of which take some time.
The creation of an overlap by the overtaking boat is not necessarily evidence of not having kept clear by the boat tacking as long as there is time to react.
Have I got it? This one looked easy to rule on in my view but it must be tough to rule on protests without the video and tougher yet as it gets closer being OK for time.
Dan
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,895
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Thanks for elaborating on the various times. So ultimately the room, or time in this case, to keep clear is the element and half a boat length might not be enough time for the overtaking boat to react. Thinking it through, the only two reasonable reactions by CO would be to go to leeward which may require the main to be eased or to tack onto port, both of which take some time.
The creation of an overlap by the overtaking boat is not necessarily evidence of not having kept clear by the boat tacking as long as there is time to react.
Have I got it? This one looked easy to rule on in my view but it must be tough to rule on protests without the video and tougher yet as it gets closer being OK for time.
Dan
Yea that’s it. If you complete your tack (rss13) and show a clean transom to me with time for me to react (a couple of seconds), I’ll hate it but will have to honor RRS 12. I’ll of course go below you, and if my bow crosses your transom I’m overlapped and have ROW again (RRS 11), but cannot take you up because of RRS 17. So I’m hosed.

For for sure more of these situations make it to the room than most any other away from a mark. Most others are easy calls. ‘Yep screw me I’m wrong’. But differing options of what is ‘enough time’ make for interesting discussions.

It’s harder for the tacking boat... a protest is almost always against them, and the protestor has nothing to lose.. its not a protest where the loser gets tosssed. Worst thing that happens is the tacker wins and does not get DSQed.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
10,895
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Yea that’s it. If you complete your tack (rss13) and show a clean transom to me with time for me to react (a couple of seconds), I’ll hate it but will have to honor RRS 12. I’ll of course go below you, and if my bow crosses your transom I’m overlapped and have ROW again (RRS 11), but cannot take you up because of RRS 17. So I’m hosed.

For for sure more of these situations make it to the room than most any other away from a mark. Most others are easy calls. ‘Yep screw me I’m wrong’. But differing options of what is ‘enough time’ make for interesting discussions.

It’s harder for the tacking boat... a protest is almost always against them, and the protestor has nothing to lose.. its not a protest where the loser gets tosssed. Worst thing that happens is the tacker wins and does not get DSQed.
BTW, EVERY time a boat close-tacks exactly on your line, its because they thought that had a cross, but at the last moment realized they did not. Just like WO11 did.

If they know they didn’t they would tack sooner and lee-bow you.

If they know they had time, they would wait a second, get over you then tack.
 
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Aug 2, 2010
379
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
Strangely enough, both of the times I have seen this happen in a way that was really close have been boats tacking from port onto starboard very close to the zone. There is so much going on with trying to anticipate what is going to happen that both times I have not really taken time to try and figure out if the tack happened inside the zone or not. One was successfully protested and should have been as the port tacker could easily have gone another boat length and tacked with no problem avoiding the whole situation. The offending boat is one that barges too so I don't think anyone was unhappy to have the protest be successful.

Dan
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,895
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Strangely enough, both of the times I have seen this happen in a way that was really close have been boats tacking from port onto starboard very close to the zone. There is so much going on with trying to anticipate what is going to happen that both times I have not really taken time to try and figure out if the tack happened inside the zone or not. One was successfully protested and should have been as the port tacker could easily have gone another boat length and tacked with no problem avoiding the whole situation. The offending boat is one that barges too so I don't think anyone was unhappy to have the protest be successful.

Dan
around marks a totally different set of stuff happens. Starboard boats are on the layljne, so going farther means giving up places. But tacking in the zone is very risky. You cannot force a starboard boat above close hauled, even if you finish your tack and are clear ahead.

I’m talking to any port boat when we get close to the zone.
 
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