2000 H450 Passage, Starter Battery

Sep 12, 2019
14
Hunter 450 Passage San Diego
Hello, Long time lurker here with a question. I bought my H450 4 years ago with a set of west marine dual purpose 4d batteries, and a xantrax heart inverter charger (12v). The inverter died last year and I replaced it with an Aims Green 2500w pure sine wave inverter/ smart charger. It's been working great so far. Any way, this past week my house batteries started getting really hot and wouldn't take a charge so I replaced them with a set of 12v 100ah lifepo4 batteries in parallel to the house battery 1 of 2 selector switch. Now this boat has a separate starting battery that I'm pretty sure is independent of my house batteries. Will I be ok with keeping my current flooded lead acid battery as a starter battery or should I look for a different chemistry to match my house bank voltages more closely? Perhaps SLA or GEL? The reason I ask is because my inverter is currently supplying voltages rated for lifepo4, which are different from the voltages and charge times for FLA. Or, is the starter battery only charged by my alternator thus making my concerns erroneous?

Thank you!
 
Oct 29, 2016
1,915
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
If you want to ensure long life for your LifePO batteries you might want to read this writeup
Lead Acid batteries have different charging requirements, our 41 with the as built charging system charges both the start bat and house bank while underway. If you haven't updated your charging system you would have a Mitsubishi alternator with an internal regulator, this setup will not do your new investment in batteries much in the way of keeping them healthy for long life.
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,400
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
How is your starter battery charged?
If it is like my H430, only the engine or genset alternators charge Start Battery.
I use standard Marine type, Flooded LA.

My new ICG by Xantrex is programable for the House batteries and include Lithium Phosphate charge curves.

Thus they are separate charging. House vs. Start.
Jim...
 
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Oct 29, 2016
1,915
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
@JamesG161 what charge curves is the engine alternator/regulator set to? as the alternator charges both when running which would result in poor charge curves while underway for the Lithium bats? This would be the case unless you have made changes to the charging circuit for when the engine is running? The gen set would provide power to the Xantrex charger would it not?
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,077
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
If it is like my H430, only the engine or genset alternators charge Start Battery.
I use standard Marine type, Flooded LA.

My new ICG by Xantrex is programable for the House batteries and include Lithium Phosphate charge curves.

Thus they are separate charging. House vs. Start.
Jim...
The reason I asked is because we never know what or how a previous owner fiddled with the factory wiring.
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,400
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
The gen set would provide power to the Xantrex charger would it not?
yes of course, since the Xantrex controls shore power, transfer switch and can actually startup the genset, if you want.

But I said...
If it is like my H430, only the engine or genset alternators charge Start Battery.
Thus the standard Alternator of 14.7 Volts and is self regulating, like both my Engine and Genset have...

You would amazed at how similar the H450 and H430 are alike.

But as Don mentioned above..
we never know what or how a previous owner fiddled with the factory wiring.
I commented since i know i can have different type Start vs House batteries.
Perhaps the OP did not know that...
Jim...
 

Rick

.
Oct 5, 2004
1,095
Hunter 420 Passage San Diego
I just have a couple of thoughts for you. If you have a stock alternator, internally regulated; it is "dumb". It is going to try to sense voltage and its gonna think your lifepo batts are full, or its just gonna chunk volts and amps until it gets hot. Which is still "tapping a cane". It most likely will get confused. Good news is your BMS on your lithium should keep the dummy in line. On my 420, if you open the genset locker and look right up inside above the door in the middle, you will see a solenoid. It combines your batts together to start the engine. In 4 plus years of lithiums and a closed cell starter batt, I have never had a problem, so IMHO, that requires no change. My 420 came with a little solar topper for the start battery, otherwise it is the engine alternator charging it.
If you want to have effective "engine" charging for your lifepo batts, an alternator upgrade would be very much worth a look. "RC" aka Maine Sail is a man to listen to. Google Marine How To, and you will find him. I bought a Balmar 100 amp and external regulator from him. That is as big as I could go because there is not enough room for a serpantine drive kit.
IMHO, you can stay where you are at but your stock alternator on engine or genset, is not gonna be up to the task of working with lithium in a "smart" way.

disclaimer. Not an expert at all.

Cheers
 
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Sep 12, 2019
14
Hunter 450 Passage San Diego
Thanks to everyone for the resourceful info!

My alternator is a stock 80amp on single v belt, and just like Rick, my starter battery and house batteries do hook up to a solenoid above the engine compartment. I've looked at the belmar upgrade kits and fortunately I have room for the serpentine kit and 120a alternator with external regulator. The point Rick brings up about the solenoid though is interesting because that does isolate the starter battery from the house bank. And it also explains how my house batteries could start the engine if needed. I'm learning this boats electrical as I go and every bit of connecting information is greatly appreciated.

On the subject of the generator, doesn't that feed my inverter, which charges my batteries? No change would be needed correct?
 
Oct 29, 2016
1,915
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
@Nauticlops the Cole Hersee solenoid is powered only when the ignition switch is in the on position, if your start battery has insufficient voltage it will not pull the solenoid in and you will not be able to start the engine from your house bank, don't ask how I know this. I have and will be installing a ACR with the ability to connect the house and start batteries, but until then I carry 8' -10ga wire with clips on either end so I may jump from the start battery to the solenoid, thus pulling in the solenoid allowing the house bank to start the engine. If your boat is set up like ours from Hunter the Panda generator is tied to the 120 volt distribution panel, I am not aware of any cabling from the generator to the starter bat or starter solenoid/ignition circuit, I am not certain that the genset alternator field windings are engergized, thereby the alternator would not be producing any output at all. There is nothing in our manual which indicates the alternator on the generator charges anything, the manual for the genset indicates that it can, but again the boat manual doesn't show any such connection. Next time I am at the boat I am going to look at this.
Your Mitsubishi alternator might be putting out 50-60 Amps on initial startup but drops off very quickly as the unit heats up, if you do the Balmar upgrade make sure you leave the Yanmar cover off the front of the motor, this will allow at least more air to keep the alternator runnting cooler. Make sure that what ever external regulator (I recommend the Balmar MC-614) you select it has the ability to adjust output to about 70-80% of capacity this will allow the alternator to work comfortably in that hot engine bay that Hunter has provided us.
You will love the serpentine belt conversion, no more belt dust,........YAH!

You can find much information here Index of /wp-content/export/Owners-Manuals
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,400
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
On the subject of the generator, doesn't that feed my inverter, which charges my batteries?
If you do not have the Owners Manual, you can download the H450 on this site.
I did a quick scan today of it.

It has all the electrical systems detailed in it.
Jim...
 

Rick

.
Oct 5, 2004
1,095
Hunter 420 Passage San Diego
@Daydreaner, thanks for the genset ifo. My 420 does not have one. BUT is do have 580 watts of solar, which is nice.

I will buy your thoughts on the solenoid. Just never have run down the starter batt, cuz it only has a couple of functions besides starting. It runs windlass, and electric wench, which I always, as the manual says, have the engine running when using for more than a minor trim of rode or mainsheet.

Cheers
 
Oct 29, 2016
1,915
Hunter 41 DS Port Huron
@Daydreaner, thanks for the genset ifo. My 420 does not have one. BUT is do have 580 watts of solar, which is nice.

I will buy your thoughts on the solenoid. Just never have run down the starter batt, cuz it only has a couple of functions besides starting. It runs windlass, and electric wench, which I always, as the manual says, have the engine running when using for more than a minor trim of rode or mainsheet.

Cheers
Interesting that the windless and winch motor are off the start battery, do you have a bow thruster and if so what battery is it connected to. Our 41DS the thruster had its own 4D battery, of course you have the motor running when its in use. The windless was off the house battery bank if I am not mistaken though.
 

Rick

.
Oct 5, 2004
1,095
Hunter 420 Passage San Diego
No bow thruster although I wish. I will verify and get back to you. Has been a while since I chased it all down. Should be easy enough.

Cheers
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,400
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Interesting that the windless and winch motor are off the start battery
Mine does the Windlass, Electric 1300lb Winch and the Bilge pump.
Why?
The alternator charging the Start Battery provides maximum amps and volts to do the hard work.
Long cables to the Windlass, too.
Jim...
 
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