My manual calls for tc-w3 oil for my 2 stoke 3 hp dinghy motor. I have 2 stoke min bike motor oil. Is there really any differents between between 2 stroke motor oil ??
2 stroke motor oil ??
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Oil
Yes....They are diffrent. Buy a "brand name" outboard oil (TCW-3). I would guess you won't use more than 1 qt. in a year! Oils cheap, use the right stuff! Also, I like to mix 40:1 even when it calls for 50:1.
Yes....They are diffrent. Buy a "brand name" outboard oil (TCW-3). I would guess you won't use more than 1 qt. in a year! Oils cheap, use the right stuff! Also, I like to mix 40:1 even when it calls for 50:1.
The difference is-
-- the burning temperature of the oil. Air cooled versus water cooled. The way I learned it, air cooled engines tended to run much hotter cobbustion chanmber temperatures than water cooled, and needed an oil that would burn off at that temperature range, or stand up to the higher temperature. It also involves ash characteristics, exhaust temperature and so-on. If you're willing to keep the revs up and always pulling, you can run the oil as rich as 16:1. However, if you're not running a racing two stroke motorcycle engine there's not much point. A rich oil mix tends to foul plugs and stick rings in their grooves. If you want to get real familiar with scraping carbon from your rings try running Castrol "R" racing bean oil at 16:1 (if you can find it any more). I had to tear down the engine after each racing weekend, but I never seized an engine while using it. For a moderate output two stroke outboard boat engine the current standard oil at the recomended mix should do just fine. As mentioned earlier, the amount most of us would use during a season probably isn't worth worrying about.
-- the burning temperature of the oil. Air cooled versus water cooled. The way I learned it, air cooled engines tended to run much hotter cobbustion chanmber temperatures than water cooled, and needed an oil that would burn off at that temperature range, or stand up to the higher temperature. It also involves ash characteristics, exhaust temperature and so-on. If you're willing to keep the revs up and always pulling, you can run the oil as rich as 16:1. However, if you're not running a racing two stroke motorcycle engine there's not much point. A rich oil mix tends to foul plugs and stick rings in their grooves. If you want to get real familiar with scraping carbon from your rings try running Castrol "R" racing bean oil at 16:1 (if you can find it any more). I had to tear down the engine after each racing weekend, but I never seized an engine while using it. For a moderate output two stroke outboard boat engine the current standard oil at the recomended mix should do just fine. As mentioned earlier, the amount most of us would use during a season probably isn't worth worrying about.
Warren is right, I go a little further and say
if it's a Merc use "Quicksliver", an OMC use "Johnson or Evinrude" oil. You can usually get both at Walmart. And richer is better than too lean with a 2 stroke, it's easy to replace a plug on the water if it fouls, tough to do anything if it seizes up. I've been on boats that did both. Knowledgable 2 stoke outboard mechanic suggested using manufacturer's oil to me. He said he has found some "off brands" that "jell" in the tanks of oil injected 2 stroke engines when mixed.
if it's a Merc use "Quicksliver", an OMC use "Johnson or Evinrude" oil. You can usually get both at Walmart. And richer is better than too lean with a 2 stroke, it's easy to replace a plug on the water if it fouls, tough to do anything if it seizes up. I've been on boats that did both. Knowledgable 2 stoke outboard mechanic suggested using manufacturer's oil to me. He said he has found some "off brands" that "jell" in the tanks of oil injected 2 stroke engines when mixed.
Ted,
Why would anyone use 'off brand' oil in an injected two stroke? That is just crazy. Is there such a thing? My 25HP Yamaha owners manual, that I'm reading as I type, says to use its' own brand oil or any EQUIVALENT oil.
Why would anyone use 'off brand' oil in an injected two stroke? That is just crazy. Is there such a thing? My 25HP Yamaha owners manual, that I'm reading as I type, says to use its' own brand oil or any EQUIVALENT oil.
My mechanic said....
...to err on the lean side rather than the rich side. Too rich a mixture is worse than a little too lean.... so 55:1 or 60:1 is better than 40:1 or 45:1. He also says to use the very best marine 2 stroke outboard oil available. Always run the gas out of the motor when it won't be used for a while. Leaving the gas/oil mixture in the cylinders will set up a shellacing effect.
...to err on the lean side rather than the rich side. Too rich a mixture is worse than a little too lean.... so 55:1 or 60:1 is better than 40:1 or 45:1. He also says to use the very best marine 2 stroke outboard oil available. Always run the gas out of the motor when it won't be used for a while. Leaving the gas/oil mixture in the cylinders will set up a shellacing effect.
Wasn't cheap oil
It wasn't cheap 2 cycle motorcycle oil. It was made my Valvolene.(sp) Got it at Pep Boys and didn't want to drive 15 miles to West Marine when Pep boys was 1 mile away.
It wasn't cheap 2 cycle motorcycle oil. It was made my Valvolene.(sp) Got it at Pep Boys and didn't want to drive 15 miles to West Marine when Pep boys was 1 mile away.
Fred, most common oil out here is made
by a company know for lube grease, but you can get it at 7/11 and it's really cheap.Don't know why someone would use something important on a boat by going with low bid either Fred. I can't figure the guy that put a brand new big bayliner in the slip next to me, unpainted bottom, covered with silver tarps and bungee cords and hasn't had the bottom cleaned in 4 months. I've only seen it move the day he put it there but they do come down to barbecue.
by a company know for lube grease, but you can get it at 7/11 and it's really cheap.Don't know why someone would use something important on a boat by going with low bid either Fred. I can't figure the guy that put a brand new big bayliner in the slip next to me, unpainted bottom, covered with silver tarps and bungee cords and hasn't had the bottom cleaned in 4 months. I've only seen it move the day he put it there but they do come down to barbecue.
How about synthetics?
Since the amount used is minimal, I've used synthetic or the partial synthetic oils the last 2 years without problems or fouling, but wonder if it really is of any advantage. Any thoughts from those who know?
Since the amount used is minimal, I've used synthetic or the partial synthetic oils the last 2 years without problems or fouling, but wonder if it really is of any advantage. Any thoughts from those who know?
It was my impression that synthetics for
2 strokes were originally developed for environmental reasons as opposed to engineering. Manufacturers were trying to address concerns with a biodegradable (vegetable base) oil. There are synthetics for performance engines, regular & synthetic oil are basically same, big advantage of synthetics is each molecule is exact same size, improving flow, coating, and heat dissipating properties.
2 strokes were originally developed for environmental reasons as opposed to engineering. Manufacturers were trying to address concerns with a biodegradable (vegetable base) oil. There are synthetics for performance engines, regular & synthetic oil are basically same, big advantage of synthetics is each molecule is exact same size, improving flow, coating, and heat dissipating properties.
Now that you ask
I was going to stay out of this one because my opinion is so strong, but just can't resist any longer. I recall synthetic 2-stroke oils first being used around 1970 in racing motorcycles and go-carts, with the most evident advantages being that engines could go several races or even a whole season between rebuilds. When 4-stroke synthetics were developed and sold by at least one manufacturer not long after that, they were mistrusted by engine builders and feared by conventional petroleum oil manufacturers. The former were concerned about controlling the quality of the lubrication in their engines, and the latter were worried about the potential competition. Thus some auto manufacturers discouraged or even prohibited the use of synthetic lubricants. Gradually, as their benefits became obvious, (especially when racers started going to synthetic engine, transmission, and differential oils because of the lower temperatures, lessened wear, and increased efficiency), synthetics began to lose the label of "snake oil" and gained the respect of all who saw their superiority. Today, many manufacturers encourage their use, and some require it. The bad news is that synthetics cost more, and the best cost the most. The good news is that you can now buy a 4-stroke motor oil that is guaranteed to meet specs even after 35,000 miles, provided filters are changed regularly. No petroleum oil can come close to that kind of performance. 2-stroke synthetics lubricate better and burn cleaner - I have used them in outboards for 8+ years with outstanding results. Yes, they cost more. The brand I use (the best) is about 4 times as much as a popular petroleum-based oil. That means I spend less than 10 bucks a year more to ensure my outboard runs on the very best (I use good gas in it, too.) Because synthetic oil molecules are "built" and not "refined", they are exactly as the chemist designs them, not what he must make do with, and the best ones are not made to compete in a market that says anything over $2/qt is too expensive. A word to the wise is sufficient.
I was going to stay out of this one because my opinion is so strong, but just can't resist any longer. I recall synthetic 2-stroke oils first being used around 1970 in racing motorcycles and go-carts, with the most evident advantages being that engines could go several races or even a whole season between rebuilds. When 4-stroke synthetics were developed and sold by at least one manufacturer not long after that, they were mistrusted by engine builders and feared by conventional petroleum oil manufacturers. The former were concerned about controlling the quality of the lubrication in their engines, and the latter were worried about the potential competition. Thus some auto manufacturers discouraged or even prohibited the use of synthetic lubricants. Gradually, as their benefits became obvious, (especially when racers started going to synthetic engine, transmission, and differential oils because of the lower temperatures, lessened wear, and increased efficiency), synthetics began to lose the label of "snake oil" and gained the respect of all who saw their superiority. Today, many manufacturers encourage their use, and some require it. The bad news is that synthetics cost more, and the best cost the most. The good news is that you can now buy a 4-stroke motor oil that is guaranteed to meet specs even after 35,000 miles, provided filters are changed regularly. No petroleum oil can come close to that kind of performance. 2-stroke synthetics lubricate better and burn cleaner - I have used them in outboards for 8+ years with outstanding results. Yes, they cost more. The brand I use (the best) is about 4 times as much as a popular petroleum-based oil. That means I spend less than 10 bucks a year more to ensure my outboard runs on the very best (I use good gas in it, too.) Because synthetic oil molecules are "built" and not "refined", they are exactly as the chemist designs them, not what he must make do with, and the best ones are not made to compete in a market that says anything over $2/qt is too expensive. A word to the wise is sufficient.
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