#2 Reef or Topping Lift Choice

Alan · Oct 13, 2006

Not sure I understand... *o

....why such venom for a rigging question. It seems way out of place here.The fact remains that a topping lift can be a pain to deal with and there are better alternatives. If you want to have and use one, you are well within your rights to, but please turn down the flame on your burner. It just isn't needed.Cheers

Terry Cox · Oct 13, 2006

Hi Fred, the PO had run the topping lift...

through a sheet stopper into the cockpit. When I needed to free up one of the eight stoppers for the spin halyard I decided to move the working end of the topping lift from the cockpit to the end of the boom. The bitter end of the TL is cleated to the mast. The working end is through two blocks; a single becket block connected to the boom with shackles and another single becket block with cam cleat connected to the working end of the TL. A short line connects the two blocks, which allows me to adjust the TL as appropriate.I'm very happy with the arrangement. I can ease or trim the TL from the cockpit as needed and I now have the spin halyard coming through the organizer and a sheet stopper. BTW I have both reefs through sheet stoppers in the cockpit, too. I've never used the TL as a main sail trim adjustment. It is not designed for that purpose according to the experts.Terry

John Nantz · Oct 13, 2006

Terry - How Do You Adjust Your Leach?

Terry - I'm curious, how do you adjust your leach to put a curve in it if you don't use the topping lift?

Terry Cox · Oct 14, 2006

Hi John, depending on the point of sail...

and wind speed I use a combination of the leech cord (leech curl control), outhaul, vang and main sheet to alter the draft, curve or twist. I'm assuming that when you say curve it is in relation to the amount of draft and twist. On our boat I will usually first ease the outhaul then the main sheet and vang to increase or alter the location of the draft and curve of the main. Trimming these will help to reduce the amount and locaton of draft, curve and/or twist.The first thing I do when it's time to stow the main, I first ease the mainsheet and vang, then trim the TL to lift the boom off the mainsheet traveler by about 12 inches. This also trims the Dutchman system monofilaments that helps flake the main when it drops. This is the only time I use the TL. TerryP.S. On our boat any effort to trim the TL while under sail will tend to interfer with the correct shape of the leech, which could cause the wind to detach at that point of interference.

John Nantz · Oct 14, 2006

re Main'sl Leach

Actually, the "curve" I was looking at was in the leach - the line it makes from the tack to the clew. Let me see if I can describe a little better where I'm coming from.In light-wind conditions, like when the wind is so light it doesn't cause the boom to lift up, I don't want the leach to be a straight line but instead have a bit of a curve in it. So for this purpose, since I'm unfortunate enough not to have a solid vang, I use the topping lift to raise the boom a tad, about an inch or two, to take the load off the clew. If the clew is pulling the sail down it puts tension on the leach which takes the curve out. One still needs to do all the draft control stuff you mentioned but this doesn't necessarily solve the tight leach problem - at least not for me.Heaven knows, we get enough of those light air conditions around here, eh?

Terry Cox · Oct 14, 2006

John, I'm a bit confused...

I think I understand your question. But that part of the sail between the tack and the clew would be the foot and the part between the head and clew would be the leech.In really light air conditions close hauled you want the sail to be as flat as possible. Otherwise, the air will separate from the sail due to the additional distance it must travel around this curve. Heavier air not as much an issue with attachment. So, if you were to raise the boom a bit with the TL thus causing a deeper draft and leech curve in the main this can cause the air to detach thus reducing drive.We have main sail telltales, one at each batten, that I watch pretty closely. If you have them you might try a test to see the result as you begin to raise the TL in light air. There should be a change in their action that would indicate air detachment. TerryP.S. This is as I understand it from all the articles Don Guillette has introduced over in the Sail Trim Forum. This might make a good discussion thread, eh?

s sauer · Oct 14, 2006

Topping Lift -Light Air

Even though I have a lighter boat with a lighter boom, I agree with John about lifting the boom slightly with the topping lift to open the leach in light air. I've shown this 'trick' to many other racers in light air. Leave the main halyard hand tight to set the draft at 50%, the outhaul firm- almost max to reduce draft in light air, and the cunningham off.Terry, raising the boom an inch to soften the leach induces no aditional draft, if you didn't touch the main halyard, outhaul or cunningham. It should help you to keep your top teltale flowing as well, as it does add a slight bit of twist.Personally, I prefer the combination of my six part boom vang, which can double as a preventer; and the topping lift which I can adjust from a captured line clam cleat on the boom right over the cockpit.I've also marked the topping lift for the maximum drop to keep the boom about an inch above the bimini.

Rick Sylvester · Oct 17, 2006

Hey Vinnie

shoot me an e-mail when you're ready to come down and I'll give you my cell #. I'm in Bradenton now (still working in Tampa) at the Twin Dolphin Marina. I'll keep some cold ones in the box for when you come over. If it gets REALLY late while we're swapping lies we'll break out the Metuzelum rum. Bring Webb down with ya if he wants.Jeez, I love it when this place gets all cranky. Hey Franklin, we still love you man. In fact, why don't you come over too?

Rick Webb · Oct 17, 2006

I'll bring the Shiner

I'll just need a Kitchen Pass.

Franklin · Oct 17, 2006

I would love to

"Hey Franklin, we still love you man. In fact, why don't you come over too?"But wouldn't I be kicked out for anchoring

Doesn't Florida hate cruisers?

Rick Webb · Oct 17, 2006

Not Here

But they do nothing to make it easy either.

Terry Cox · Oct 17, 2006

I keep checking the mail. Hmmm, guess my...

invitation got lost.

Terry

Rick Sylvester · Oct 17, 2006

Well hell,

everybody just c'mon over. BYOB and I'll keep the ice coming.Franklin, what do you care if Florida gets agitated over you anchoring here? Heck, I thought you loved stirring the pot

Seriously though, if any of you nut-jobs get down my way shoot me an e-mail so I can give you some directions. I'm at:ricksylvester(at)msn(dot)com

Terry Cox · Oct 17, 2006

Hah! The gauntlet has been thrown...

nm

#2 Reef or Topping Lift Choice

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