2 or more Microns for diesel fuel filter?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Feb 6, 1998
11,686
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Wow...

Wow .... I'm no closer to my answer but know a lot more than I did??

Quote: "The Kubota engine spin-on filter is 24 micron according to Kubota USA, with these comps: NAPA 3390, Purolator PER-262-F, Fram P-3726, Kubota 7000-4308(1), Universal 298854, fleetguard # ff5226"


Be careful as the mentioned crossover filters vary and may not all be 24 micron..
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
You really need a gage !!!!

The most a single stage pump can 'pull' in vacuum is approx. 6" vacuum Hg. which is about -3psig. With only 3 psig to work with the only way to monitor what is happening in a filter(s) is to use the gage, With a NEW/CLEAN filter in place, run the engine at WOT (highest operating rpm) and use the gage reading at max. rpm as your 'reference guide' to the flow rate of the oil. All the 'good' manufacturers provide *flow vs. differential pressure* curves for their filters ... correlate the flow vs. ∆P vs. the gage pressure and you will know WHEN to change the filters. Specifically in the case of a 30µM --->2µM ..... the 30µM will not 'protect' the 2µM and will allow a lot of debris to deposit on the 2µM. A 2µM 'should' be protected/preceeded by a 10µM
 
D

Dan Johnson

Went through...

a bunch of Yanmar dealer parts sites last night and could find only one that gave the micron size of the engine (secondary) filter. It was listed as being 3 microns. My Yanmar shop manual for my 3GM (page 3-29) indicates the spec is from 10 to 15 microns, with replacement every 250 hours.
 
May 11, 2005
3,431
Seidelman S37 Slidell, La.
What a discussion

Wow, lots and lots of info. here. As I stated in a previous post, I use a 30, followed by a ten, then the 2 Yanmar filter on the engine. This is the only filter that comes on the Yanmar, so the rest is up to us. The Yanmar engine filter is very small in physical size, and certainly wouldn't last long if thats all there was in the system. I do not use Racor filters, because the Wix filters were on the boat when I got it. The Wix elements are less than ten bucks for the pair. They are double the size of the Racors, and I change them once a year, regardless. Having two filters of the same size, say 10 microns basically defeats the purpose of having two. The first in line will catch 10 micron and larger particles, so there is nothing for the second to do, unless the first gets a hole in it. As was stated before, it's like sandpaper, using progressively smaller sizes. And by the way, Mainesail, I have a 3GM Yanmar, and have no problems with the three filter setup. The lift pump handles them fine. I think that as long as the filters are clean, there is basically no resistance there.
 
Dec 24, 2003
233
- - Va. Beach, Va
Rich,

Yanmar (which, I'm told, now controls upwards of 80% of the sailboat engine market), states that unless the boat owner uses their (Yanmar)filters, oil, replacement parts, etc., that Yanmar has the right to void the warrentee on a new engine. Yet you say "I'd avoid buying (re-branded or 'private label') filters from the engine manufacturer !!!!)". What's a simple minded guy like me to do ? ? My Yanmar is now 8 years old and has about 2800hrs on it. (And is still running great). It is, of course, out of warrentee; But, I've continued to use only Yanmar (primary) fuel filters, (whatever uM they are ?!), ... (and oil, and oil filters). ... And like Main Sail, Racor 30uM secondary. And now you're telling us that we're using the wrong Racor and don't need to use Yanmar's filters ... (Fram filters ARE much less $). And I thought only my stock market account was in turmoil ! !
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Just the Opposite......

These folks can charge an exorbitant 'markup' by having such filters made by 'others' with the Yanmar 'brand' on them. This makes you a 'captive' audience to a monopoly. Yanmar et al does not MAKE filters, they 'buy' filters and have their logo imprinted (private label branding) .... then charge you many times the 'value' of the filter. Your choice and comfort level as there are 'honest' filter manufacturers out there.
 
Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
I asked Practical Sailor to comment

on OEM vs aftermarket filters. Here is the response (which appeared in the August 2007 edition of their publication): Are there any significant differences in the quality of an OEM Yanmar Oil Filter and a Fram filter from K-Mart? Warren Milberg 1986 Hunter 28.5 Deale, Md. One Practical Sailor contributor, the manager of a custom boatbuilding and repair/refit yard, had this reply: "Not all filters are created equally: There are differences from filter to filter. We see no problem using after-market filters whose reputations are proven: brand names such as Fram (makes filters for Honda, Chrysler, and others), NAPA, Wix (Wix actually manufactures NAPA’s Silver and Gold series filters), Fleetguard (owned by Cummins Filtration), and Baldwin to name a few. "If you have a failure and the engine manufacturer points a finger at the filter maker, you have a better chance of obtaining restitution from a well-established manufacturer than one with a brand that’s been relabeled for chain stores. "As far as filters and other ‘after-market’ parts are concerned, your rights as a consumer are protected by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975. In short, it says, ‘no warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer’s using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty)…’ "This means that if an engine manufacturer claims that you must use OEM filters, or oil for that matter, or the warranty is void, he must either provide these products at no charge or he is in violation of this law. If you suffer a failure within the warranty period and the manufacturer asserts that it’s a result of the filters or oil you’ve used, the onus is on them to prove that this is true, and if they do so, then you have a strong case with the manufacturer of the filter. "Boatyards use after-market fuel and oil filters on a regular basis and rarely have issues with them. The ‘issues’ typically involve the dimensions of the filter itself. On occasion, the after-market filter is larger (not a bad thing, larger often means more filter media is inside) than the OEM part. Other than that, it’s simply never presented a problem for us. The difference in price, even for the exact same part depending upon where it’s purchased, can be considerable. We recently installed oil filters on a diesel engine that’s no longer in production. The one remaining dealer sells the appropriate filter for over $100." While this advice is purely anecdotal, Practical Sailor has cut open many fuel and oil filters to analyze their contents, and in doing so, we’ve discovered that often, higher-quality after-market filters have more pleats or media than the OEM equivalent. As most folks know, few engine manufacturers make their own filters. So, why can’t you purchase the same filter, with a different label and get the same results for a fraction of the price? You can, however, you must observe some guidelines. Just because a filter screws onto the engine’s threaded boss doesn’t mean it’s the right filter. It must be properly cross referenced. This information is available in catalogs available from filter makers. The filter must be capable of providing the correct filtration as well as proper flow rate and by-pass valve pressure release (when an oil filter becomes dirty, it will allow the oil to bypass the filtration media because dirty oil is better than no oil at all) as well as an anti-drain back capability if that’s called for in a particular application (horizontal or inverted filters for instance).
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Whoa! Unless you see and validate such 'claims' by TEST METHODS .....

... and the test methods, etc. are traceable and repeatable to some MIL SPEC or ASTM tests (OSU F2, etc.) you can if you carefully usually follow such 'words' usually discover someone who has a vested interest as a 'competitor' etc. The internet is especially FULL of such BS. Nothing wrong with 'potting' a pleat-pack to a heat resistant/high wet-strength 'cardboard' endcaps, as the side seal (where the 'circle of pleats come together) of ALL such pleat packs are also 'potted' together, etc. etc. ..... plus an engine 'lube oil filter' is a totally 'different animal' whose retention is based on many multiple passes of the same fluid over and over and over again. I have absolutely NO connection to any of these manufacturers .... just do state that there is the same amount of misleading unsupported and unsubstantiated BS in the filter industry that you find from the current political parties, politicians, legal arguments, etc. etc. ... and find most is misleading, untrue, is 'unsupported' based on 'nothing', has some 'hidden agenda', etc. etc. etc. If you stick with the 'main brands' .... you'll 'probably' get what you pay for. I personally dont accept 'any' claim for 'important' stuff unless the 'claims' of same can be 'validated'. Otherwise - caveat emptor. ;-)
 

Shippy

.
Jun 1, 2004
272
Hunter 356 Harve de Grace
Just took the Mack Boring Yanmar class earlier this month

According to the instructor (extremely knowledgable yanmar guy), the only solution we should be using is a 30 mircon on the primary (near the tank) and a 3 in the secondary (on the engine). any other combination is not recommended. Reason being that the lift pump is designed for the 30 micron. It can and will pull thru a lesser but will reduce the life expectancy of that pump. Tim
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,220
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
how far off topic can we get?

Started as an informative diesel fuel filter discussion and turned into a lube oil filter description including Honda oil filters (not too many Honda diesels). as long as you change them (any of them) frequently enough, it doesn't make any difference which brand you use.
 

RichH

.
Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Don is absolutely and totally correct.

"as long as you change them (any of them) frequently enough, it doesn't make any difference which brand you use." In recirculation crankcase oil filtration you could use compressed PUBIC HAIR and wind up with the SAME exact filtration .... but would need to change them more often :)
 
Dec 24, 2003
233
- - Va. Beach, Va
Thanks Main Sail,

What a difference a day makes ... Everything is wonderful in filter land AND the stock market today. However, "No one know what tomorrow will bring" ...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.