1981 Catalina 30 Rudder Questions

[Rmalko]

I bought a 1981 Catalina 30 a year ago. I noticed that if I push up on the rudder it will go up about 1 inch. Is this normal to have that much play in it or should it not move up/down at all?
Next question is about water getting into the rudder and causing a crack that seeps. Is it possible to seal the rudder at the top where the shaft exits or is this just an ongoing problem with this rudder?

 

[jssailem]

Congrats on your Catalina acquisition.
Since your in RI, I am guessing you have your boat on the hard. You moved the rudder about and see the movement.

Side to side movement would be a problem.

If the rudder and the shaft through the hull move up and down a little that is to be expected. The rudder shaft goes up through the hull and is held by an upper and a lower bearing. These bearings allow the rudder to turn but stop side to side movement. There is a quadrant inside the hull that sits above the upper bearing. It and a pin through the rudder shaft stop the rudder shaft from sliding down and out of the boat.

The weight of the rudder generally keeps the rudder and shaft from riding upwards.

Now... If the rudder is slipping up and down on the shaft that would cause concern that the rudder is not internally attached to the shaft. The rudder should be inspected by a knowledgable marine craftsman..

Regarding water leaking into the rudder. This is where we need a picture to understand what you are looking at. The rudder is normally secured to the shaft and is water tight. Water should not have a way to get inside the rudder. It will destroy the rudder. If the rudder has struck something then it is possible that water tight integrity of the rudder has been compromised. Again inspection is recommended by a marine craftsman.

 

[Rmalko]

Congrats on your Catalina acquisition.
Since your in RI, I am guessing you have your boat on the hard. You moved the rudder about and see the movement.

Side to side movement would be a problem.

If the rudder and the shaft through the hull move up and down a little that is to be expected. The rudder shaft goes up through the hull and is held by an upper and a lower bearing. These bearings allow the rudder to turn but stop side to side movement. There is a quadrant inside the hull that sits above the upper bearing. It and a pin through the rudder shaft stop the rudder shaft from sliding down and out of the boat.

The weight of the rudder generally keeps the rudder and shaft from riding upwards.

Now... If the rudder is slipping up and down on the shaft that would cause concern that the rudder is not internally attached to the shaft. The rudder should be inspected by a knowledgable marine craftsman..

Regarding water leaking into the rudder. This is where we need a picture to understand what you are looking at. The rudder is normally secured to the shaft and is water tight. Water should not have a way to get inside the rudder. It will destroy the rudder. If the rudder has struck something then it is possible that water tight integrity of the rudder has been compromised. Again inspection is recommended by a marine craftsman.

Thank you JS... My Cat is now in Mattapoisett, MA and on the hard. Good to know the up and down of the rudder shaft is ok. I was not sure how much movement there should be if any. As for the water seeping from the side of the rudder I think it is coming in from the top of the rudder where it is around the shaft. I had drilled some holes to let the water drain out and thought it dried out enough then I sealed it. After the sailing season when the boat was back on the hard I saw that the water was seeping out the side of the rudder again. The rudder never hit anything that I know of.

 

[dmax]

Water enters the rudder through either the top of the shaft (rain water), where the shaft enters the fiberglass or from cracks in the fiberglass. The Cat 30 rudder was made by Foss Foam - unfortunately, back then they used plain steel for the internal "flag" in the rudder, water ingress can cause this to rust, possibly resulting in the shaft spinning within the rudder when you need it most. Take a good look at the rudder and determine if the fiberglass has any cracks or is de laminating - if so, you're going to want to address that. Drill the drain holes again and let the rudder dry out as much as possible - you can apply a vacuum to really speed this up. You can seal the top of the shaft by spraying foam into it. You can seal where the shaft enters the fiberglass by carving out a bevel and filling it with 3M 5200. If the rudder is sound, you should have no more water problems. I had a Cat 30 whose rudder had been leaking for years so I decided to replace it with a new one from Foss - these are made with better foam and all Stainless.

 

[barnstormer]

Congrats on your Catalina acquisition.
Since your in RI, I am guessing you have your boat on the hard. You moved the rudder about and see the movement.

Side to side movement would be a problem.

If the rudder and the shaft through the hull move up and down a little that is to be expected. The rudder shaft goes up through the hull and is held by an upper and a lower bearing. These bearings allow the rudder to turn but stop side to side movement. There is a quadrant inside the hull that sits above the upper bearing. It and a pin through the rudder shaft stop the rudder shaft from sliding down and out of the boat.

The weight of the rudder generally keeps the rudder and shaft from riding upwards.

Now... If the rudder is slipping up and down on the shaft that would cause concern that the rudder is not internally attached to the shaft. The rudder should be inspected by a knowledgable marine craftsman..

Regarding water leaking into the rudder. This is where we need a picture to understand what you are looking at. The rudder is normally secured to the shaft and is water tight. Water should not have a way to get inside the rudder. It will destroy the rudder. If the rudder has struck something then it is possible that water tight integrity of the rudder has been compromised. Again inspection is recommended by a marine craftsman.

On a 1981 cat 30 mk1 there are no bearings on the top or bottom of the rudder shaft. There is a delrin spacer top and bottom that provides a surface for the rudder to rub against. I would see if you still have the spacers intact, it's possible they have disintegrated and they would allow the rudder more movement up and down. Catalina direct has the spacers.

 

[smokey73]

Foss Foam is in Williston FL and they will rebuild your rudder if the stainless shaft is still in good shape. They rebuilt mine for about half the cost of a new rudder. They hade the original mold for my rudder and probably do for your Cataline too. My vintage (1994) Hunter had the stainless shaft but the carbon steel "fins" and since I had some long term water leakage and distortion visible on the rudder I decided to have mine rebuilt rather than wait for it to fail. I was fortunate enough to be able to drive the rudder down and back in the back of my Honda Odyssey soccer van which cut out a lot of the expensive shipping. They are great "hometown" folks down at Foss Foam and I enjoyed my visit with them.

 

[dmax]

"They rebuilt mine for about half the cost of a new rudder. "
That's interesting, they had stopped rebuilding rudders when I bought my first rudder from them (2007), didn't ask last time. The cost of new was not bad in both cases though and well made.

 

[smokey73]

Not sure of the history of what they did in 2007 or why. I had mine rebuilt in 2022 and I talked to them by phone. May have to do with the rudder shaft material or their confidence in rebuilding a particular model rudder. Good people though and worth the call. Make sure you are talking to Foss Foam in Florida. I seem to recall there is or was a company with a similar name in California that produced some rudders for some manufacturers. The Foss Foam in Florida number is 352-529-1104. Their website is newrudders.com. No, I do not have a financial interest in the company, just a very satisfied customer.

 

[dmax]

Second that, they are excellent to work with - I think just business wise at the time they didn't want to do rebuilds - things change. I have no complaints, good to know they're back rebuilding.

 

[Trixster]

Hello Sailors,
My 1986 Catalina 30 rudder has a slight water leak. Any suggestions.
Thank you
Trixster,
Glen Cove, NY

 

[Davidasailor26]

Hello Sailors,
My 1986 Catalina 30 rudder has a slight water leak. Any suggestions.
Thank you
Trixster,
Glen Cove, NY

From the pictures it looks like some amount of destructive investigation has already been done to the trailing edge of the rudder and to a lower section near the leading edge? It’s hard to tell but if that’s rusty color in the lower section I’d assume the steel supports inside the rudder are compromised, and the rudder will need to be at least cut in half to further evaluate it and potentially replace the steel.

 

[Trixster]

From the pictures it looks like some amount of destructive investigation has already been done to the trailing edge of the rudder and to a lower section near the leading edge? It’s hard to tell but if that’s rusty color in the lower section I’d assume the steel supports inside the rudder are compromised, and the rudder will need to be at least cut in half to further evaluate it and potentially replace the steel.

David,
Thank you. It is pretty much the same story my advisors were telling me. thank you for the guidance.