Just recently aquired Venture 25, circa1976.She has been unprotected for the past 10 years.Have begun task of cleaning etc.Boat is on trailer(that must also be refurbished).Would like to check swing keel bolt and cable.Can this be done while boat is on trailer?? Also need advice on removing,refinishing,reinstalling swing keel,just for starters!!!!!!!!X
1976 Venture 25 ..........HELP!!!!!
- Thread starter Popeye18296
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to remove bolt
If the 25 is like my V222, then you should be able to just set a jack under the forward part of your keel, while on the trailer, and take the pressure off the bolt by lifting the keel just a little. You should then be able to go inside and pull the pivot bolt out. If it is bent, which after 10 yrs, I would suspect, you may have to tug abit. Then take it down to True Value and get a stainless steel replacement. also while there you might get a couple of rubber washers to place arount the bolt to seal out the water once it is back in place. The cable should be no problem as you can simply unwind it from the spool on the winch. Just remember to hold it tight when putting it back into place., so slippage is kept at a minimum. If you have to work on the keel you should build a cradle to hold the boat, perhaps out of 4X4s and pull the trailer out from under her. I did all that on my V222. then you can take your time on both the trailer and boat. i enjoy working on her as much as sailing her. Now even though my boat is the way i want it, I still putter around doing little things to her. its fun.
If the 25 is like my V222, then you should be able to just set a jack under the forward part of your keel, while on the trailer, and take the pressure off the bolt by lifting the keel just a little. You should then be able to go inside and pull the pivot bolt out. If it is bent, which after 10 yrs, I would suspect, you may have to tug abit. Then take it down to True Value and get a stainless steel replacement. also while there you might get a couple of rubber washers to place arount the bolt to seal out the water once it is back in place. The cable should be no problem as you can simply unwind it from the spool on the winch. Just remember to hold it tight when putting it back into place., so slippage is kept at a minimum. If you have to work on the keel you should build a cradle to hold the boat, perhaps out of 4X4s and pull the trailer out from under her. I did all that on my V222. then you can take your time on both the trailer and boat. i enjoy working on her as much as sailing her. Now even though my boat is the way i want it, I still putter around doing little things to her. its fun.
Dennis
Dennis, Thanks for your timely and informative response.Certainly appreciate the advice.Hope to have her ready to sail by next spring. popeye
Dennis, Thanks for your timely and informative response.Certainly appreciate the advice.Hope to have her ready to sail by next spring. popeye
I hope you make it
for next spring, but not to discourage you it took me about 2 yrs. to get her ready for the water. A lot to do, and mine, outside of the keel, was sailable ready,for the most part, when purchased. its a lot of work. But as i said as you progress it is fun and you see the improvements taking shape. if you build a cradle, be sure to support the boat in the strong areas, of the hull. One support I put as close to the stern as possible, and the other I put at the beginning of the keel trunk, where the areas are strong. The thin fiberglass will give way if supports are put in the weak areas. think about it and look the situation over. I made the cradle a little higher than my trailer and jacked the boat to it, then I could slide my trailer out from underneath. It reallly wasnt hard, and I will do it again when my keel needs refurb.
for next spring, but not to discourage you it took me about 2 yrs. to get her ready for the water. A lot to do, and mine, outside of the keel, was sailable ready,for the most part, when purchased. its a lot of work. But as i said as you progress it is fun and you see the improvements taking shape. if you build a cradle, be sure to support the boat in the strong areas, of the hull. One support I put as close to the stern as possible, and the other I put at the beginning of the keel trunk, where the areas are strong. The thin fiberglass will give way if supports are put in the weak areas. think about it and look the situation over. I made the cradle a little higher than my trailer and jacked the boat to it, then I could slide my trailer out from underneath. It reallly wasnt hard, and I will do it again when my keel needs refurb.
My 1980 was in the water within two weeks
I bought a 1980 Mac 25 on June 26 and was in the water on July 4. My project list for the winter is still growing, but we are plenty able to enjoy this season while on the way. I'd be glad to share notes back and forth on the renovation process. Good luck.
I bought a 1980 Mac 25 on June 26 and was in the water on July 4. My project list for the winter is still growing, but we are plenty able to enjoy this season while on the way. I'd be glad to share notes back and forth on the renovation process. Good luck.
I could have
had my boat in the water as soon as I got her home, but wanted to fix the keel first and make my own personal touches you know. all in all Im not sorry I waited. I think you find you keep trying to improve on your boat no matter how new it is. Just part of the process.
had my boat in the water as soon as I got her home, but wanted to fix the keel first and make my own personal touches you know. all in all Im not sorry I waited. I think you find you keep trying to improve on your boat no matter how new it is. Just part of the process.
foam blocks
Well about foam blocks, it is your call. I have heard of people leaving them in and others taking them out, for the storage area. Myself, I left mine in, with it being packed in up under the front V berths, and under the cockpit. I had to pull mine out under the cockpit to install my wheel steering, but put them back after. Also I solved some of my storage problems, by lengthening the forward V bunks, out to the front of the keel trunk and turning the head area around, so entry is from the front. You can view my cabin in the 22 foot owner photo section under the perfect interior! I have a fully enclosed head, which I like for privacy, although I guess the noise isnt muffled much. HA. The foam blocks was Macgregors and Ventures methods for making the boat unsinkable. The boat would only take water on up to deck level, instead of sinking. If you arrange your cabin right, you will be surprized at just how much storage space you can come up with.
Well about foam blocks, it is your call. I have heard of people leaving them in and others taking them out, for the storage area. Myself, I left mine in, with it being packed in up under the front V berths, and under the cockpit. I had to pull mine out under the cockpit to install my wheel steering, but put them back after. Also I solved some of my storage problems, by lengthening the forward V bunks, out to the front of the keel trunk and turning the head area around, so entry is from the front. You can view my cabin in the 22 foot owner photo section under the perfect interior! I have a fully enclosed head, which I like for privacy, although I guess the noise isnt muffled much. HA. The foam blocks was Macgregors and Ventures methods for making the boat unsinkable. The boat would only take water on up to deck level, instead of sinking. If you arrange your cabin right, you will be surprized at just how much storage space you can come up with.
bolt
My Venture 25....... 1976 #534. Can somebody please let me know the size and length of the bolt that attaches the winch cable to the keel. Also how it is held EG. does the bolt go through the keel and then hold the cable on one side of the keel or is there a 'U' bolt. many thanks Isnibs.
My Venture 25....... 1976 #534. Can somebody please let me know the size and length of the bolt that attaches the winch cable to the keel. Also how it is held EG. does the bolt go through the keel and then hold the cable on one side of the keel or is there a 'U' bolt. many thanks Isnibs.
BOLT
Hang in there and we'll learn together!!!!!I'm almost at the point of removing the keel bolt,The winch is next on my list.
Hang in there and we'll learn together!!!!!I'm almost at the point of removing the keel bolt,The winch is next on my list.
yes the cable bolt
goes through the keel, there should be an easily visible hole, and the cable comes down on the right side of it and attaches to the bolt. the right side is of course for my V222. buy I imagine it will apply to the 25 as well. These boats were all laid out in a similar fashion and the set ups are pretty simple. The keels swivel on a single bolt, and a cable simply raises and lowers it, powered by a hand winch, or if you are clever a power winch. Get a large eye for the cable end, so the bolt will pass through, at True value, along with a stainless steel bolt. The eye will allow a little swivel as the keel is raised or lowered.
goes through the keel, there should be an easily visible hole, and the cable comes down on the right side of it and attaches to the bolt. the right side is of course for my V222. buy I imagine it will apply to the 25 as well. These boats were all laid out in a similar fashion and the set ups are pretty simple. The keels swivel on a single bolt, and a cable simply raises and lowers it, powered by a hand winch, or if you are clever a power winch. Get a large eye for the cable end, so the bolt will pass through, at True value, along with a stainless steel bolt. The eye will allow a little swivel as the keel is raised or lowered.
winch bolt
I am thinking of making the part of the trailer where the keel sits into a removable bolt on section. It will be a foot long on each side of the trailer keel support "V" and made of the same angle iron. Drill for four half inch bolts on either side of the 'V" and one foot lengths. Lower the front of the trailer Support the keel with the winch. Cut the trailer keel support between the four drilled bolt holes on both sides. With a jack support for the keel, replace the keel bolt then winch the keel down. Replace the winch bolt and wire. Winch the keel up Bolt the keel support "V" and one foot lengths back in place. With this setup and side support I hope to be able to remove the keel completely for repainting. I have included a picky, as you can see I'm NOT an artist. Do you think it will work???? IsNibs http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/isnibs/TRAILER.jpg
I am thinking of making the part of the trailer where the keel sits into a removable bolt on section. It will be a foot long on each side of the trailer keel support "V" and made of the same angle iron. Drill for four half inch bolts on either side of the 'V" and one foot lengths. Lower the front of the trailer Support the keel with the winch. Cut the trailer keel support between the four drilled bolt holes on both sides. With a jack support for the keel, replace the keel bolt then winch the keel down. Replace the winch bolt and wire. Winch the keel up Bolt the keel support "V" and one foot lengths back in place. With this setup and side support I hope to be able to remove the keel completely for repainting. I have included a picky, as you can see I'm NOT an artist. Do you think it will work???? IsNibs http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v440/isnibs/TRAILER.jpg
I have
A reg. boat trailer under my V222, and the keel rests right on one of the rubber rollers, and has for 3 years without any problems. Your configuration will probably work okay, I personally like the rubber rollers, for the reason if anything happened that the cables would break, I have rollers to pull the boat back onto the trailer. I have put in a double cable system on my keel, so if one should break, the other will still lift the keel.
A reg. boat trailer under my V222, and the keel rests right on one of the rubber rollers, and has for 3 years without any problems. Your configuration will probably work okay, I personally like the rubber rollers, for the reason if anything happened that the cables would break, I have rollers to pull the boat back onto the trailer. I have put in a double cable system on my keel, so if one should break, the other will still lift the keel.
A lot of work
Seems like a lot of work for a little gain. Additionally, I think you would be weakening a major member of the trailer structure. I definately prefer solid or welded steel over four bolts. I have removed my keel every two years to clean and repaint as I haven't been smart enough yet to properly treat it to prevent rust. I simply leave the aft end on the trailer and use a floor jack to lower the floor end after removing the bolt. That gives you access to all but a small area near the cradle and where it sits on the jack. I clean and paint all that I can, raise it back into place, and then clean and paint the rest.It moves enough in the cradle to allow you to get to both sides. Additionally, it makes it much easier to reinstall since the pivot bolt lines up nearly perfectly and only requires a little persuasion. I admit it would be easier with the keel out from under the boat but unless you plan to hang the keel by a cable or something, You won't be able to get to all of it in one shot anyway. Just some thoughts.
Seems like a lot of work for a little gain. Additionally, I think you would be weakening a major member of the trailer structure. I definately prefer solid or welded steel over four bolts. I have removed my keel every two years to clean and repaint as I haven't been smart enough yet to properly treat it to prevent rust. I simply leave the aft end on the trailer and use a floor jack to lower the floor end after removing the bolt. That gives you access to all but a small area near the cradle and where it sits on the jack. I clean and paint all that I can, raise it back into place, and then clean and paint the rest.It moves enough in the cradle to allow you to get to both sides. Additionally, it makes it much easier to reinstall since the pivot bolt lines up nearly perfectly and only requires a little persuasion. I admit it would be easier with the keel out from under the boat but unless you plan to hang the keel by a cable or something, You won't be able to get to all of it in one shot anyway. Just some thoughts.
When I redid my keel
I built a cradle out of 4X4s which was just enought higher than the trailer to allow me to jack the boat up over the trailer and then pull it out from under the whole thing. when I dropped the keel I made a jig so that the keel would stay in the position when I lowered it, to allow the bolt holes to line up once I raised it again. The jig allowed me to keep the keel sides up and easy to get at. It wasnt bad at all and I will do it again when the need arrives. I think this time instead of refiberglassing though i will simply remove the rust and epoxy over the whole thing. That is all that is really needed. The glass cloth likes to come off after a time, so by epoxying it the repairs there after should be just spots here and there. I would think it would be difficult to redo the keel while the boat was on the trailer.
I built a cradle out of 4X4s which was just enought higher than the trailer to allow me to jack the boat up over the trailer and then pull it out from under the whole thing. when I dropped the keel I made a jig so that the keel would stay in the position when I lowered it, to allow the bolt holes to line up once I raised it again. The jig allowed me to keep the keel sides up and easy to get at. It wasnt bad at all and I will do it again when the need arrives. I think this time instead of refiberglassing though i will simply remove the rust and epoxy over the whole thing. That is all that is really needed. The glass cloth likes to come off after a time, so by epoxying it the repairs there after should be just spots here and there. I would think it would be difficult to redo the keel while the boat was on the trailer.
Trailer mod
Maybe I have an odd trailer or the side slides have sagged. When my Venture is on the trailer and the keel is fully winched up the keel is still resting on the trailer "V" so I would have to lift the back of the boat to allow the keel any movement. I could use longer angle iron pieces on either side with more bolts to hold it. The trailer "V" is made of thin gauge steel and this may beef it up a bit. If I built a cradle of wood it would have to be wider than the trailer wheels to remove the trailer. My keel has no fiberglass it is 660Lb. of badly pitted rusty steel. popeye how do you intend to do your winch cable?
Maybe I have an odd trailer or the side slides have sagged. When my Venture is on the trailer and the keel is fully winched up the keel is still resting on the trailer "V" so I would have to lift the back of the boat to allow the keel any movement. I could use longer angle iron pieces on either side with more bolts to hold it. The trailer "V" is made of thin gauge steel and this may beef it up a bit. If I built a cradle of wood it would have to be wider than the trailer wheels to remove the trailer. My keel has no fiberglass it is 660Lb. of badly pitted rusty steel. popeye how do you intend to do your winch cable?
Yes my cradle
was wider than my trailer, also on my trailer to avoid the hull from hitting the fenders when i got the boat, I simply raised the bunks just by adding another layer of wood over the bunk boards. That got the boat off the fenders and probably would allow you room to drop your keel some simply by nailing another layer of wood to your bunks. I then put the bunk carpet over the whole thing and it has worked great ever since. Like I said I have a reg. boat trailer, not a Mac. trailer. In fact a power boat had been on it prior to my purchasing it. The trailer has so many adjustments, that you can modify it for anything. Its a cool trailer really.
was wider than my trailer, also on my trailer to avoid the hull from hitting the fenders when i got the boat, I simply raised the bunks just by adding another layer of wood over the bunk boards. That got the boat off the fenders and probably would allow you room to drop your keel some simply by nailing another layer of wood to your bunks. I then put the bunk carpet over the whole thing and it has worked great ever since. Like I said I have a reg. boat trailer, not a Mac. trailer. In fact a power boat had been on it prior to my purchasing it. The trailer has so many adjustments, that you can modify it for anything. Its a cool trailer really.
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