1973 catalina 27 rebuild

[Ravenblood]

hello all,
new to sailing and the site, have friends that are full time cruisers and boat builders. they have convinced me that I need to join them (after 3 years of talking)
I recently purchased a 30' custom wooden cutter (Robert Armstrong design) that has great mast, sails, standing rigging, ground tackle, toe rails, and a 12hp farymann diesel that runs strong. the boat is mahogany framed, and rain water has done it's damage to the main structure.(still floating, but barely) the price was more than agreeable.
next step was finding a second boat cheap that needed what I had on hand.
same yard I pulled out at has a catalina 27 that was demasted in Irene, and the owner has abandoned. they're in the process of obtaining title and I should be able to take ownership in 60 days. for roughly the cost of a haulout.

I'll post some pictures once I get to my computer so you can see what I'm dealing with and advise, but this is the basic plan so far...

the new mast is 8" shorter than stock for this boat, but larger and stronger. mast step roughly double in size. I plan on keeping the cutter setup, adding a bowsprit of some sort, and using the external chainplates I have.
this setup will increase the total sail area to 500' with all 3 up.
the boat never had an inboard, and never will. the outboard will do fine for me. the keel bolts are solid looking, no ball valves anywhere, extra cockpit drainage done by PO, bulkheads solid but not perfect (shouldn't matter as much with external chainplates) aside from some rewire work and a solid cleaning, most of the checklist on standard 27 upgrades have, or will be done.
planning on going as far as the bahamas and surrounding islands, so no grand dreams of circumnavigating a fin keel.
does anyone see any obvious problems I'm missing? reinforcing cabin top for extra weight on mast? (compression post is currently in great shape with no signs of past issues)
how will adding 160' to the sail plan affect handling?
I'm new to this all, but will answer everything as best as I can if you have questions.
thanks for the time folks. hopefully we'll see you out there soon.

 

[Ravenblood]

 

[jrowan]

I would inspect the C 27 of that age very carefully before I stressed it out further with more sail area. If she was dismasted then I assume that all of the rigging & chainplates are likely bad & need replaced. The forestay & backstay tabs are likely also damaged. How do U plan on attaching the external chainplates, as the hull was not designed to bear the load in that area? As far as the extra sail area, just plan on reefing early on as wind speed inceases as she will heel a lot more. I would have a mainsail with two reefs, and a roller furling would be a good thing to install to reduce sail area exposed quickly. An outboard is a fine method to push the 27, but it will eat a lot more fuel than a diesel. I had a C 25 with an outboard & she could burn through a 5 gallon gas tank in a daysail in & out. Good luck.

 

[Ravenblood]

thanks for the reply,
the masthead was the point of failure in the storm, and all stock rigging has been removed. everything on the deck appears to be undamaged. the forestay will be attached to the new bowsprit, and backstay is to be replaced with a stronger member.
I'd be a fool to reuse rigging that failed previously, and I'm installing a totally different mast than she came stock with.
the plan is to drill, fill, and re-drill to give the bolts on the external plates a solid seat and try to prevent water creeping into the glass, and installed with backing plates. the new mainsail has two reefing points, and I'm not planning on running all 3 sails up unless I'm on a longer run and conditions are favorable, I will be close to the orig. sailplan with 2 sails, so I should only see a difference with the 3rd up, and I can dump that if the weather picks up. I cannot afford a roller furling at this time, but it is on the list for the future.
I understand the in/outboard concept, and I'm part of the "less throughhulls the better" crowd. this boat wasn't built with an IB, and I'm not wanting to install the one I have. I will be living aboard and cruising full time, and using the motor as little as possible. I'm not a marina dweller, so most of her life will be out on the hook.
I'm headed back out to the boats in a couple hours, I'll take and attach more specific photo's then.

 

[jrowan]

Just curious - so you're planning on making the C 27 a cutter rig with 2 jib sails? I would be careful where U plan on attaching the inner stay as the deck of these boats are not the heaviest & may need a substantial backing plate installed. I guess your other cutter rig boat is not salvageable? Because it seems to already be set up the way U want the catalina - that is, it already has a bow sprit & the mast section & sails that U need. A stout cutter rig boat with a bowsprit that is larger, ie. a 30 footer may make a bigger & perhaps better livaboard boat than a C 27. I have a C 30 & would consider it marginal / the minimal size I would consider as a liveaboard. Also, I believe that despite my loyalty to several Catalina purchases, I would not consider them stout enough to weather all conditions U can encounter whist living "on the hook." Although very few sailboats, other than blue water cruisers would i consider worthy of such demands. I would consider the C 27 a good weekender type craft. Think carefully before placing all your bets on it as a liveaboard, unless U have no other options. Bigger, older boats may be slower, but may handle heavy weather better. Also, The German built Ferrymann diesel is an oldy, but goodie. I would take it any day over an outboard, which in my experience are never all that reliable.
Just my 2 C worth.

 

[Ravenblood]

yes, planning on making the C 27 a cutter rig with 2 jib sails.
here's the whole story... I bought the 30' cutter knowing there was more rot in the hull than I wanted to spend the time or money to repair. and as long as I was able to motor it to my local yard and get it pulled, I was happy with that. I was basically buying a parts boat. it was built with the best parts money could buy in the 80's, great sails, mast, chainplates, bronze hardware, motor, ground tackle, and lots of donor mahogany. it was worth the $800 I ended up paying for it.
the catalina has been sitting at the dock abandoned for about a year, everything appears to be solid, the mast did come down in the hurricane, and the only damage I can find is where the bolts pulled out from the step, standing rigging attachment points are intact, but going to be removed and filled anyway. the PO owes almost $6000 to the marina, they took title of it and sold it to me for $400 just to free up some dock space.
I have already sold off the inboard for what I paid for the 30, so with the haulout and yard time so far, I've invested less than $700 in both boats.
I agree about the inner stay, and the configuration of the 30 is dictating the rebuild, otherwise I wouldn't even be thinking of doing this. I'm not wealthy, but I can work, this is my cheapest cruising option right now.
my cruising buddy has been out on a balboa 27 for 2 years, and I have his insight as well (the catalina is a little more stable than his) I'm just looking at this project as a learning experience, do some coastal sailing, cross the gulf stream to the bahama's, use the time to learn how to sail, a lot about boat maintenance, and what I really want/need in a boat. I plan on redoing the interior over the next year while I'm out, and selling it after I find my ideal boat. I know the limitations I'm facing (I think) but may be naieve.
I'm also well aware that the heavy, full keel wooden 30 is way more comfortable, and if it was a perfect world and it was possible, I'd rather be on it over the catalina.

that being said, I really appreciate your 2c, and everyone else's...
I'm going to need your help before this is all over.

 

[Stu Jackson]

WADR:

1. Making a C27 into a cutter is a useless proposition. Why? For your plans, you simply do not need the added sail area with that boat and the complications with additional mast supports and perhaps running backstays for the inner jib nor the bowsprit. A bow sprit will require a bobstay and reinforcing at the bow.

2. Moving the chainplates outboard will make hell to pay for going upwind.

Why not just take a good boat's bones and make it right? Take the $$ you'd spend for item 1 and put it into roller furling for the standard jib setup.

 

[Merlin Clark]

Someone in the dim past added a staysail to my old 41 Gulfstar.
Rather than try and carry the load of the inner forestay with the deck, he had 2 heavy pad eyes made (with off set eyes) and bolted them together thru the deck. From the inside pad eye, a short stay (complete with turnbuckle for adjustments) transferred the load to a third heavy padeye that was bolted thru the stem, which on that boat was very heavy glass. He never added running back stays and I didn't like the inner stay being in the way of the headsail so I took it down. But that was me and your boat is your boat so do what you like, of course.
I agree you may have to beef up the hull in order to mount the chainplates. I'd spread the load over a good sized area and go with solid glass and no core. A new compression post if you need one can be made out of rot resistant wood. I'd check the area under the mast step and if it is still cored, dig out the core and lay it up solid too.
Sounds like an interesting project and you have a plan. Please post pics!

 

[Stu Jackson]

Good point about needing to beef up the attachment point of the inner forestay. I've seen some where it intersects the V berth for appropriate attachment point.

 

[Ravenblood]

WADR:

1. Making a C27 into a cutter is a useless proposition. Why? For your plans, you simply do not need the added sail area with that boat and the complications with additional mast supports and perhaps running backstays for the inner jib nor the bowsprit.
--I may not need it, but it's what I have, and I think it will work.


A bow sprit will require a bobstay and reinforcing at the bow.
--you're correct


2. Moving the chainplates outboard will make hell to pay for going upwind.
--- new to sailing, what does this change?
Why not just take a good boat's bones and make it right? Take the $$ you'd spend for item 1 and put it into roller furling for the standard jib setup.

---that would cause me to have to buy a Catalina mast and step, boom, main and jib,
Rebuild interior wall chainplates, upgrade all standing rigging attachment points, and then buy the roller furling setup.
WADR, that's way more money than what I'm spending the other way, and money spent in the yard is time not out sailing. I'm not looking to build the "ultimate c27" or anything like that. I don't care if its unnecessary, it's what I have to work with.
I just want to do it safely.

Good inputs on the forestay, I'm most likely not going to be doing a lot of sleeping in the v, mostly just storage. so that opens up possible solutions

thanks again
I know I'm being slack on pictures... apologies, soon.

 

[Ravenblood]

 

[Merlin Clark]

She will definitely stand out from the crowd!
Good to see you're making progress.