I'm a proud new owner of a 192 and am pretty new to sailing in general (and also this forum). What is the risk of a knockdown in this model of boat and at what angle of heel should I be concerned? I'd really like to hear from other owners and/or past owners as to what type of wind conditions you sailed in and around how much the boat heeled.
192 heel: When do I start to worry?
- Thread starter jasonk
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heeling
Most sailboats sail their fastest around 15 degrees of heel+ 0r - a few degrees. It's exciting around 25 or 30 the rudder will probable lose control and you will round up much past 30 degrees. The usual advice is to reef at 15 degrees unless racing.
Most sailboats sail their fastest around 15 degrees of heel+ 0r - a few degrees. It's exciting around 25 or 30 the rudder will probable lose control and you will round up much past 30 degrees. The usual advice is to reef at 15 degrees unless racing.
When you are heeling more than 45 degrees
and the boat has not rounded up into the wind, That is when you start to worry. Remember that is the beginning of the process. Most production boat will round up into the wind and supply ample warning by severe weather helm then no steering at all due to rudder stall. Just because you round up does not mean you should worry. Do it a few time early in the season and it will shake out all those nervious bugs about the boat capszing. Most boats have a groove that once you find it, the boat will stiffen up and just go that angle can be from 10 to 35 degrees depending on the wind. If you are afraid of finding that point and try to avoid it, the boat will violently heel from 0 to 30 then 0 then 30 etc. When the boat heels, let it find it's groove. it will stiffen up and go. You will know if you have too much sail up because it will round up into the wind with uncontrolable weather helm. Remember that not only has the designer built in safety but as the boat heels, the wind dumps out over the top and actually added to the safety. If you are uncomfortable, ask to ride with another sailor that you know ,knows his/her stuff and feel it out. I saw a guy learn a heep in one trip with a guy that knew his stuff. The student is now a contender. r.w.landau
and the boat has not rounded up into the wind, That is when you start to worry. Remember that is the beginning of the process. Most production boat will round up into the wind and supply ample warning by severe weather helm then no steering at all due to rudder stall. Just because you round up does not mean you should worry. Do it a few time early in the season and it will shake out all those nervious bugs about the boat capszing. Most boats have a groove that once you find it, the boat will stiffen up and just go that angle can be from 10 to 35 degrees depending on the wind. If you are afraid of finding that point and try to avoid it, the boat will violently heel from 0 to 30 then 0 then 30 etc. When the boat heels, let it find it's groove. it will stiffen up and go. You will know if you have too much sail up because it will round up into the wind with uncontrolable weather helm. Remember that not only has the designer built in safety but as the boat heels, the wind dumps out over the top and actually added to the safety. If you are uncomfortable, ask to ride with another sailor that you know ,knows his/her stuff and feel it out. I saw a guy learn a heep in one trip with a guy that knew his stuff. The student is now a contender. r.w.landau
Heel
I agree with Harley and r.w. Make sure your centerboard is down! If you're in higher winds and it starts to feel uncomfortable, uncleat the main sheet and hold it in one hand (don't wrap it around your hand, just keep a grip on it) and when you start to round up, ease the sheet. Probably a couple of feet at first, then you should start to get the feel of it and be able to balance with smaller adjustments. Remember the boat can only convert so much power into forward movement; if you've got the tiller pulled up hard just to keep the boat straight, you have your main trimmed in too much - it's like driving with one foot on the gas and one on the brake. Ease the sheet to dump some of the power out of the main, the boat will settle down, it won't feel as exciting but you'll actually be going faster. Having the rail in the water is slow. If you find you can't bring the main in at all, and it's constantly flogging, you have too much wind and you need to reef. I wouldn't worry about capsizing, as r.w. said, she'll heel, you'll have less rudder in the water, then the main will overpower the rudder, and she'll round up into the wind, she'll flatten out, you can fall off the wind a bit and start again. Have fun! Kevin
I agree with Harley and r.w. Make sure your centerboard is down! If you're in higher winds and it starts to feel uncomfortable, uncleat the main sheet and hold it in one hand (don't wrap it around your hand, just keep a grip on it) and when you start to round up, ease the sheet. Probably a couple of feet at first, then you should start to get the feel of it and be able to balance with smaller adjustments. Remember the boat can only convert so much power into forward movement; if you've got the tiller pulled up hard just to keep the boat straight, you have your main trimmed in too much - it's like driving with one foot on the gas and one on the brake. Ease the sheet to dump some of the power out of the main, the boat will settle down, it won't feel as exciting but you'll actually be going faster. Having the rail in the water is slow. If you find you can't bring the main in at all, and it's constantly flogging, you have too much wind and you need to reef. I wouldn't worry about capsizing, as r.w. said, she'll heel, you'll have less rudder in the water, then the main will overpower the rudder, and she'll round up into the wind, she'll flatten out, you can fall off the wind a bit and start again. Have fun! Kevin
How much heel?
I was out sailing my 192 off of Catalina Island last week with a Montgomery 15 owner at the helm and he asked the same question. We had good wind (20 kts) so there was a reef in the main but the boat was performing just beautifully - going to windward with a bone in her teeth - and I told him that "this amount of heel is about right". We popped the cover off the compass (which also indicates heel) and it showed 20 degrees.
I was out sailing my 192 off of Catalina Island last week with a Montgomery 15 owner at the helm and he asked the same question. We had good wind (20 kts) so there was a reef in the main but the boat was performing just beautifully - going to windward with a bone in her teeth - and I told him that "this amount of heel is about right". We popped the cover off the compass (which also indicates heel) and it showed 20 degrees.
Thanks!
Thanks to everyone for your responses. I feel more comfortable about what to expect and how to control it. I'm looking forward to getting out again this weekend.
Thanks to everyone for your responses. I feel more comfortable about what to expect and how to control it. I'm looking forward to getting out again this weekend.
One Other Piece of Advice
Give your boat (and yourself) a "workout" a few times. Make sure your standing rigging is adjusted, and take it out in heavy wind, and let it heel. Fight the rudder, and force the boat to sail to wind at a 35-45 degree heel, and get a feel for it. What you'll discover is exactly what you've been told here, that the boat will "want" to round up, you'll lose rudder control, and wind will dump over the sail. BUT, you'll have a "heart knowledge" instead of a "head knowledge". And, the biggest thing you'll learn is that, barring heavy seas, it's very difficult to capsize a keel boat. You'll get to another level of confidence in your boat.
Give your boat (and yourself) a "workout" a few times. Make sure your standing rigging is adjusted, and take it out in heavy wind, and let it heel. Fight the rudder, and force the boat to sail to wind at a 35-45 degree heel, and get a feel for it. What you'll discover is exactly what you've been told here, that the boat will "want" to round up, you'll lose rudder control, and wind will dump over the sail. BUT, you'll have a "heart knowledge" instead of a "head knowledge". And, the biggest thing you'll learn is that, barring heavy seas, it's very difficult to capsize a keel boat. You'll get to another level of confidence in your boat.
Ballast
Herb. How does the 192 compare to a regular keel boat? It has a 400 lb. ballast in the keel, but to keep the shallow draft it doesn't extend very far below the bottom and the center board doesn't have the weight in it. On other swing keel boats, the keel contains the ballast and places the weight lower in the water. How does this impact the righting ability of the boat?
Herb. How does the 192 compare to a regular keel boat? It has a 400 lb. ballast in the keel, but to keep the shallow draft it doesn't extend very far below the bottom and the center board doesn't have the weight in it. On other swing keel boats, the keel contains the ballast and places the weight lower in the water. How does this impact the righting ability of the boat?
You have to look at the whole boat...
What determines the righting ability of the boat is the relative location of the center of gravity of the entire boat (and it's cargo and occupants) and the center of buoyancy (the center of gravity of the water displaced by the boat). Locating ballast deeper would improve (lower) the location of the center of gravity slightly. It's a proportional thing - since the ballast represents about 30% of the weight, moving it six inches lower would move the CG just under two inches. But in a small boat like the 192, two men weigh pretty much the same as the ballast and whether they are in the right place or the wrong place at any given time will have a much more profound effect on the boats stability.
What determines the righting ability of the boat is the relative location of the center of gravity of the entire boat (and it's cargo and occupants) and the center of buoyancy (the center of gravity of the water displaced by the boat). Locating ballast deeper would improve (lower) the location of the center of gravity slightly. It's a proportional thing - since the ballast represents about 30% of the weight, moving it six inches lower would move the CG just under two inches. But in a small boat like the 192, two men weigh pretty much the same as the ballast and whether they are in the right place or the wrong place at any given time will have a much more profound effect on the boats stability.
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