I am looking for advice on the 135 vs 150 headsail on a Catalina 320. We will be purchasing the boat new in the comming weeks. We sail in Western LI Sound but expect to make trips to Block Island etc. I am wondering when the 150 becomes over powered, and how it responds to reefing. Oops, I should say this is on a Catalina 320. If I get the 150 I'll probably have something smaller than a 135 made down the road but don't want to get in over my head at the start. Thanks.
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Chris Burti
Input
I can't make a recommendation to you, because we sail our 320 in a different geographic area. But, I'll share some observations on our experience in the hopes that you can translate them into useful information in order to help you come to a conclusion. Note, that I do no racing whatsoever, but do prefer good performance. We predominantly sail (short-handed) in the the North Carolina Sounds and rivers. Winds in the 20+ knot range are common here in the Spring and Fall. Typically, it will start out lighter in the morning and build throughout the day. August is referred to as the 'dog days' due to the heat and lack of wind (you can include July in that description as well). Whenever there is any wind forecast above 5 mph, we will go sailing if at all possible. (Sometimes we go anyway, heheh, you take your opportunities when you can.) We have a 135. That is the ideal single sail for us in the predomonant conditions that we sail. My first choice for a second sail would be a blade or a 110 for better upwind performance in blustery conditions. Third sail, would be an asymetrical chute. A 150 just isn't in the cards for me. I find myself reefing far more than I find myself wishing for more canvas. A 150 would spend far more time reefed to some extent than not. Let's face it, these things really aren't designed for good performance when partially furled. I find a 150 annoying to keep filled downwind in light air w/o a whisher pole (itself another annoyance). I would get a lot more benefit out of the better shape of a smaller headsail over the reefed 135 which is a very common occurance now. When I do wish for more sail, it is usually off the wind and the cruising chute would be the better choice than the 150. The 320 is not a bad performer in light air. Finally, as a cruiser, I don't want to fill up the limited storage of the 320 with an extensive sail inventory...expense considerations aside. So, I'm looking for a great deal on a blade first and may end up with an asymetrical if can I 'steal' one. I hope some of this information will translate usefully for you in your area. Regards, Chris
I can't make a recommendation to you, because we sail our 320 in a different geographic area. But, I'll share some observations on our experience in the hopes that you can translate them into useful information in order to help you come to a conclusion. Note, that I do no racing whatsoever, but do prefer good performance. We predominantly sail (short-handed) in the the North Carolina Sounds and rivers. Winds in the 20+ knot range are common here in the Spring and Fall. Typically, it will start out lighter in the morning and build throughout the day. August is referred to as the 'dog days' due to the heat and lack of wind (you can include July in that description as well). Whenever there is any wind forecast above 5 mph, we will go sailing if at all possible. (Sometimes we go anyway, heheh, you take your opportunities when you can.) We have a 135. That is the ideal single sail for us in the predomonant conditions that we sail. My first choice for a second sail would be a blade or a 110 for better upwind performance in blustery conditions. Third sail, would be an asymetrical chute. A 150 just isn't in the cards for me. I find myself reefing far more than I find myself wishing for more canvas. A 150 would spend far more time reefed to some extent than not. Let's face it, these things really aren't designed for good performance when partially furled. I find a 150 annoying to keep filled downwind in light air w/o a whisher pole (itself another annoyance). I would get a lot more benefit out of the better shape of a smaller headsail over the reefed 135 which is a very common occurance now. When I do wish for more sail, it is usually off the wind and the cruising chute would be the better choice than the 150. The 320 is not a bad performer in light air. Finally, as a cruiser, I don't want to fill up the limited storage of the 320 with an extensive sail inventory...expense considerations aside. So, I'm looking for a great deal on a blade first and may end up with an asymetrical if can I 'steal' one. I hope some of this information will translate usefully for you in your area. Regards, Chris
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Jim
150 vs. 135
I have just ordered a 320 as well! I ordered the 135, rarely race, just the benefit regattas. I did not want the large overlap to deal with . We are coming off our former boat which was a self tending main and mizzen so the added work load of a large genoa did not make sense. I have not sailed the 320, but we did sail a Catalina 36 with an over sized genoa and during our test sail the wind went from calm to over 28 knots, the large genoa was a bear to trim. My guess is that you might shorten sail around 25 knots with a 150, but a 135 may still be full at 25.
I have just ordered a 320 as well! I ordered the 135, rarely race, just the benefit regattas. I did not want the large overlap to deal with . We are coming off our former boat which was a self tending main and mizzen so the added work load of a large genoa did not make sense. I have not sailed the 320, but we did sail a Catalina 36 with an over sized genoa and during our test sail the wind went from calm to over 28 knots, the large genoa was a bear to trim. My guess is that you might shorten sail around 25 knots with a 150, but a 135 may still be full at 25.
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Gaspare
150 is a bear...
I race on a C&C 30 who's skipper has a large inventory of sails. When he puts that 150 on it is major work! And most of the time we end up over powered and have to reef the main. For cruising I recommend a 135. I sail my C30 on the south shore of Long Island but often cruise to Block Island, Newport and the Peconic bay. When the wind pipes up I have my hands full with the 135, I really would not want a sail on my boat that would spend 80% of it's time furled.
I race on a C&C 30 who's skipper has a large inventory of sails. When he puts that 150 on it is major work! And most of the time we end up over powered and have to reef the main. For cruising I recommend a 135. I sail my C30 on the south shore of Long Island but often cruise to Block Island, Newport and the Peconic bay. When the wind pipes up I have my hands full with the 135, I really would not want a sail on my boat that would spend 80% of it's time furled.
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Joe Barrett
Another point of view
I regularly race my 320 and always use my 155% Doyle Quicksilver Genoa. Of course it is usually light/medium air here on the Gulf of Mexico. Never reef it either but I've gotten pretty good at feathering the boat in puffs.I would reef the mainsail first befoe I ever reef the Genoa because of poor performance. I could not do as well as we do with a 135%. I do use a whisker pole either on a broad reach or wing and wing and the 155% has a big advantage there as well.When the wind is aft of the beam we always use the pole. My 135% is home in the garage.
I regularly race my 320 and always use my 155% Doyle Quicksilver Genoa. Of course it is usually light/medium air here on the Gulf of Mexico. Never reef it either but I've gotten pretty good at feathering the boat in puffs.I would reef the mainsail first befoe I ever reef the Genoa because of poor performance. I could not do as well as we do with a 135%. I do use a whisker pole either on a broad reach or wing and wing and the 155% has a big advantage there as well.When the wind is aft of the beam we always use the pole. My 135% is home in the garage.
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Bob
Case for the 150
I have a Catalina 310 - the younger sister of the 320 with a similar sail plan and hull shape. We sail in the western basin of Lake Erie with an average depth of 30 ft. We get both a lot of surface chop (especially on weekends and between the islands) and prevailing 10-15 kt winds. The Admiral insists that we sail the boat flat and I have found that reefing not only keeps the Admiral happy but also keeps the boat speed up. We tuck a reef in the main at about 13-15 kts apparent and begin to furl the 150 at 17- 20 kts. Boat speed does not suffer and actually increases with the selected reefing. We double reef the main at 20 + and adjust the headsail to balance the boat. On lite air days I am very happy to have the 150 and go to the asymetrical chute if we are going on an extended downwind trek. The Schaefer 2100 furler allows easy furling (easier than my old Catalin 22 with the CDI furler for the 150) even in high winds. Without the furler I would recommend the 135 but with the furler the 150 gives me the right amount of sail most of the time. At the end of this coming season I plan to have luff tape installed on the 150 to give it better sail shape when furled.
I have a Catalina 310 - the younger sister of the 320 with a similar sail plan and hull shape. We sail in the western basin of Lake Erie with an average depth of 30 ft. We get both a lot of surface chop (especially on weekends and between the islands) and prevailing 10-15 kt winds. The Admiral insists that we sail the boat flat and I have found that reefing not only keeps the Admiral happy but also keeps the boat speed up. We tuck a reef in the main at about 13-15 kts apparent and begin to furl the 150 at 17- 20 kts. Boat speed does not suffer and actually increases with the selected reefing. We double reef the main at 20 + and adjust the headsail to balance the boat. On lite air days I am very happy to have the 150 and go to the asymetrical chute if we are going on an extended downwind trek. The Schaefer 2100 furler allows easy furling (easier than my old Catalin 22 with the CDI furler for the 150) even in high winds. Without the furler I would recommend the 135 but with the furler the 150 gives me the right amount of sail most of the time. At the end of this coming season I plan to have luff tape installed on the 150 to give it better sail shape when furled.
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Chris Burti
Concerning reef points...
My 320 is overpowered with a single reef and full 135 close-on in 25 knots of wind. I would have gotten a second reef initially had I known. Now it will have to wait until I know I won't be sailing for a few weeks.
My 320 is overpowered with a single reef and full 135 close-on in 25 knots of wind. I would have gotten a second reef initially had I known. Now it will have to wait until I know I won't be sailing for a few weeks.
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JeffC
150
I agree with Bob. I like the additional range that the 150 provides. When the wind is light I'm glad to have all of that sail area. When the wind builds the boat moves along very well with the jib furled down to 125 or even 110. I usually sail short handed and I don't find any difficulty trimming or furling the 150. JeffC
I agree with Bob. I like the additional range that the 150 provides. When the wind is light I'm glad to have all of that sail area. When the wind builds the boat moves along very well with the jib furled down to 125 or even 110. I usually sail short handed and I don't find any difficulty trimming or furling the 150. JeffC
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RonD
Another Opinion
I have a C320 Shoal Keel with the 135 Genoa & single reef main. I, too, don't like severe heeling for comfort & handling reasons. I'll sail with both unreefed until sustained apparent winds start getting around 20+ knots or so. I find through proper trim it can be quite comfortable. Reef the main first; again, sail trim is everything to control things -- just watch for any lee helm. With the Genoa reefed in to about the "90-100%" point (roughly with the tack between the mast & first stay) I can trim things in 30 knots apparent to operate up to 35 degrees off the wind in an almost hands-off-the-wheel mode (very slight weather helm). At 30 knots apparent, I'm generally headed for the barn, too! --Ron
I have a C320 Shoal Keel with the 135 Genoa & single reef main. I, too, don't like severe heeling for comfort & handling reasons. I'll sail with both unreefed until sustained apparent winds start getting around 20+ knots or so. I find through proper trim it can be quite comfortable. Reef the main first; again, sail trim is everything to control things -- just watch for any lee helm. With the Genoa reefed in to about the "90-100%" point (roughly with the tack between the mast & first stay) I can trim things in 30 knots apparent to operate up to 35 degrees off the wind in an almost hands-off-the-wheel mode (very slight weather helm). At 30 knots apparent, I'm generally headed for the barn, too! --Ron
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Jim Wolfgram
Another Opinion
I sail the SF bay, generally quite strong winds. My boat has a 110 jib and I've never really felt like I needed more, at least going upwind. My depowering sequence is as follows: 1. Ease the mainsheet, induce twist in the mainsail. 2. Drop the traveler, backwind the main a bit to reduce power. 3. Move the jib fairleads back, reduce power in the jib. 4. Reef the main. 5. Reef the Headsail a couple of turns. Downwind, I'd like to have more sail and am considering a drifter or a gennaker.
I sail the SF bay, generally quite strong winds. My boat has a 110 jib and I've never really felt like I needed more, at least going upwind. My depowering sequence is as follows: 1. Ease the mainsheet, induce twist in the mainsail. 2. Drop the traveler, backwind the main a bit to reduce power. 3. Move the jib fairleads back, reduce power in the jib. 4. Reef the main. 5. Reef the Headsail a couple of turns. Downwind, I'd like to have more sail and am considering a drifter or a gennaker.
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