150 genoa for hunter 23.5

[timothy_c]

I have a hunter 23.5 wb I've been racing with our club for the last 3 seasons. I'm gettin' tired of being the last across the finish line against boats running 150 genoa's. I'd like to upgrade. Currently I have what appears to be a working jib or at best a 110 genoa. Do any of you have H-23.5's rigged with larger head sails; If so what modifications were made to accomodate it.

Tim C
Madisonville, KY

Psychotic Squirrel

Lighthouse Landing KY Lake.

 

[Alan]

Timothy, your boat will never do well with an overlapping headsail. The chainplates of your boat are mounted on the toerail which would kill the sheeting angle of a larger headsail. However, your boat could really use a well made jib and main. The sails that the boat comes with are fine for sailing around with the family but to be competitive in racing you need good quality sails and there is just no substitute for that.

 

[timothy_c]

reply to Alan

Thanx for the reply Alan,

I think the previous owner of my boat may have raced. The main sail is from Lee. The top three battens are wide and stiff. The lower is very thin and flexible. This gives the sail a deep lower pocket which improves hook-up when tackin' but may hinder pointing. The head sail as I mentioned earlier is a workin' jib or maybe a 110 genoa. No one can tell the difference. It's from Doyle and has both leech and foot lines. I can get different performance for given wind conditions adjusting them. Also, on the boom I have two attachment points for the mainsheet. Again, given different wind conditons I can get improved performance by switching between the two.

You mentioned getting a good set of sails for racing; do you have any suggestions on where or what to look for ? There are a couple of 23.5's in my marina that have roller frulling. I've asked the owners if they have larger genoa head sails but they "don't know" they just go out for day sailing. FX sails offers several size headsails for 23.5's and thats what brings me here,,,, research.

To put things in perspective one of the boats I'm up against is an O'day 222 (phrf 261 for our club) my phrf is 243. His boat is a fractional rig with a 150 genoa and this guy is dustin' a bunch of us. I can strip mine down to an eggshell on the water, make better time but still get dusted bad by several boats all with the 150's. My only other option so far is an a-kite which would put me in our spinaker fleet against J-22's, S-2 6.9 and a few other high performance boats. Any thoughts or comments appreciated other than I need to improve my skills (thats a given) lol ....

T..

 

[Alan]

Timothy, I can feel your pain! I know exactly what you're going thru. I had exactly the same type of experiences when I started racing and getting my butt kicked.

Let me tell you a few things I've learned over the years. Never sail against your competition they way HE sails. Sail YOUR boat. Get some polars and sail for optimum VMG. Many boats are going to out-point you, just accept that. Sail your boat to her strengths. Practice tacking and gybing. Your goal in a tack is NOT to turn as sharply as possible but to get on the opposite tack loosing the least amount of boat speed. A good tack should cost no more than 1 knot of boat speed.

Also, get as many sail controls installed as you can. A traveler is a significant upgrade that will pay dividends. Add a cunningham and properly tune the rig for your prevailing sailing conditions. Rig tuning changes from one location to the next dependent on conditions. Experiment with mast rake and shroud tension. Not large increments, but keep detailed readings to find the best settings for your boat.

Good luck and hang in, things are going to improve.

 

[timothy_c]

Thanx Alan for the encouragement

Thanx Alan,

For the words of encouragement. I've been practicing most of what you suggested. We have monthly structured club races with the puff- up pins and an every Saturday run-for-fun practice series using established USCG channel markers as turning pins. That has really boosted the skill level of most of the sailors in the clubs at the north end of KY Lake. I've not messed with tuning my rigging yet. I've made a few inquiories about it. I don't get much advice since these boats are considered trailor sailors (mast up / mast down). As long as the rigging is snug I'm good to go is about all the input I get. I'll have to get a tensioning tool and start playin with it.

With the exception of a couple of my competitive friends I usually dont try to race toe-to-toe with other boats and sail mine within it's abilities. The race I was in last weekend I pulled a little known trick. On an almost downwind leg of the course (triangle) boats were on broad reaches or wing and wing in a wide arc outside the marks. I couldnt get a good wing going so I pulled up the keel and went to the inside of the course ranging from close hauled to beam reach. Basically I sailed a forward side-slide straight line course to the pin. I did close the distance between my boat and the next one up the course fairly well and possibly beat him on PHRF. Have to wait for the results later this week.

One other thing I might add, I singlehand my boat most races.

T...

Timothy, I can feel your pain! I know exactly what you're going thru. I had exactly the same type of experiences when I started racing and getting my butt kicked.

Let me tell you a few things I've learned over the years. Never sail against your competition they way HE sails. Sail YOUR boat. Get some polars and sail for optimum VMG. Many boats are going to out-point you, just accept that. Sail your boat to her strengths. Practice tacking and gybing. Your goal in a tack is NOT to turn as sharply as possible but to get on the opposite tack loosing the least amount of boat speed. A good tack should cost no more than 1 knot of boat speed.

Also, get as many sail controls installed as you can. A traveler is a significant upgrade that will pay dividends. Add a cunningham and properly tune the rig for your prevailing sailing conditions. Rig tuning changes from one location to the next dependent on conditions. Experiment with mast rake and shroud tension. Not large increments, but keep detailed readings to find the best settings for your boat.

Good luck and hang in, things are going to improve.

 

[Paul Wash]

Agree

Timothy, I too feel your pain - I'm going through it now. Alan gave me a lot of advice as well especially around rig tuning. That definitely helped ensure the boat is doing the best it can. I think the bottom line for us is realizing that VMG is key, the wind varies across the course, the tide varies, the currents vary, and there are lots of things affecting our performance against other boats even directly next to us...

What I've started doing now is focusing on how to make our boat sail its best, ignoring the competition (to a reasonable extent - I still want to kick their butts) and focusing on getting to the mark as efficiently as possible. I focus on finding the best wind on the course (watching the wind lines), finding the pressure, understanding the preferred tacks, and tacking/jibing with the lifts/headers appropriately to make the best way.

It's hard, but at least for us, we're starting to understand at least some of the secrets behind sailboat racing. The realization is just because they (the competition) are doing it that way doesn't mean that we can too b/c everything varies.

I added a ton of stuff to our little boat and figured out I'm going to make myself nuts if I keep analyzing everything so much at which point its not even fun anymore. Now its time to master the controls and be aware of the environment.

Anyways...my 2 cents...
Paul.

 

[timothy_c]

Thanx Paul,

Looking at yours and Alans info I'm guessin you sail in big open water. Over here on KY Lake I know all too well how to watch for the wind on the water. I spent one light wind race chasing my closest competition from puff-to-puff. He couldn't shake me. Alas the race facillitator called it off after 2 1/2 hours due to the lack of wind. We don't get too many big waves to practice tackin' on 'em. The best we can muster is really confused chop (1 1/2 to 3ft.) potholes in the water after a weather front moves through. Aggravatin' as hell after the wind dies. We're lookin' at the wind forcast for Saturday. 0 - 5 mph and we've got another practice-series race scheduled. The race director sent the email out and indicated that anyone without a motor is invited and those of us with em' will tow folks back to their marinas if necessary... jeshhhhh the dog days of summer LOL..

I do have another question concerning my jib. It's a Doyle equipped with a tensioning line along the foot. Do you know how best to use it. I've asked other boaters around my marina and not many people are aware that these are out there...

Thanks for the info.

T...