Always wanted a sailboat but have no experience. Will be taking lessons and will sail on inland lakes. I'd like to carry up to 4-5 adults total (but often just 2 total). I've looked at both the 14 and 17 foot Hunters and would appreciate any advice on the pros and cons of each for the newbie sailor. Am I correct in assuming that the 14 would be easier to sail but the 17 would give me room to "grow" as a sailor? I've read a few negative posts on the 170 in this forum and don't want to spend all my time being frustrated with my boat...but perhaps most 170 owners are happy and I'm only reading the negatives, I don't know. Any idea of which one might be more stable? Also, is a small motor advisable or are paddles sufficient? Any and all comments very much appreciated.
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used boat
I got involved in sailing by volunteering as crew in a local group that races Lightnings on the Potomac River. The Lightning is a 19', 3-person one-design boat. The middle crew acts primarily as mobile ballast, and so skills aren't too critical right at the beginning. (I gets waaaay complicated when it's time to put up and gybe the spinnaker!) There are also likely to be sailing social clubs in your area, as well as places you can take lessons. I'd look for a used boat in the 18-22 foot range if you want that many adults on it. There are literaly thousands of used boats of every shape and size languishing in garages, back yards, marinas, etc., etc. Find a local marina where there are lots of boats parked. Walk around until you find one that's the type you want, but looks like it hasn't seen the water in a couple of years. (Look for moss growing on the sheets and halyards!) Find the owner and offer to take it off their hands for them.
I got involved in sailing by volunteering as crew in a local group that races Lightnings on the Potomac River. The Lightning is a 19', 3-person one-design boat. The middle crew acts primarily as mobile ballast, and so skills aren't too critical right at the beginning. (I gets waaaay complicated when it's time to put up and gybe the spinnaker!) There are also likely to be sailing social clubs in your area, as well as places you can take lessons. I'd look for a used boat in the 18-22 foot range if you want that many adults on it. There are literaly thousands of used boats of every shape and size languishing in garages, back yards, marinas, etc., etc. Find a local marina where there are lots of boats parked. Walk around until you find one that's the type you want, but looks like it hasn't seen the water in a couple of years. (Look for moss growing on the sheets and halyards!) Find the owner and offer to take it off their hands for them.
A good small boat for learning
is the O'day Daysailor. They are 17' and are comfortable with four adults in the cockpit with a little cuddy cabin for coolers and picnic stuff. They are also quite stable, trailerable and can be kept easily at home -- I was able to get mine in my garage, though the garage was longer than many. I haven't seen or sailed the Hunter 14' and 17'. Many years ago when I dreamed of owning a boat I read an article that suggested always buy a boat a little bigger than you think you need because it won't be long until you want a bigger one. I agree with searching out a good used boat to begin with. May your winds always be favorable. Marv Otto S/V Kobold Goldemar (Hunter 26)
is the O'day Daysailor. They are 17' and are comfortable with four adults in the cockpit with a little cuddy cabin for coolers and picnic stuff. They are also quite stable, trailerable and can be kept easily at home -- I was able to get mine in my garage, though the garage was longer than many. I haven't seen or sailed the Hunter 14' and 17'. Many years ago when I dreamed of owning a boat I read an article that suggested always buy a boat a little bigger than you think you need because it won't be long until you want a bigger one. I agree with searching out a good used boat to begin with. May your winds always be favorable. Marv Otto S/V Kobold Goldemar (Hunter 26)
Starter boat
There are many factors to consider wth your question. I started on a sunfish and now sail a Hunter 240. In reality the hunter is usually easier, especially in high winds. If you're taking up to four, are you wanting to eat or take a break? The motor issue depends on local weather and where you will store your boat (and how far you want to paddle). I like to have a cabin for shelter in case of sudden downpour. the bigger boats are more comfortable, stable and usually have labor-saving gizmos like winches and such. My advice- at least look at the 212 or similar model.
There are many factors to consider wth your question. I started on a sunfish and now sail a Hunter 240. In reality the hunter is usually easier, especially in high winds. If you're taking up to four, are you wanting to eat or take a break? The motor issue depends on local weather and where you will store your boat (and how far you want to paddle). I like to have a cabin for shelter in case of sudden downpour. the bigger boats are more comfortable, stable and usually have labor-saving gizmos like winches and such. My advice- at least look at the 212 or similar model.
Bigger is better
especially in easy of sailing. I started in a Montego 20 shoal draft and have sailed in boats to 38'. My current boat is a Hunter 235 but I'd own a 30+ if I could get it into my slip without blocking the canal. If you want 4 to 5 adults I'g go to at least 20'. As to a motor ... yes, have one. My son loves to tell the story about the time he swam accross Onieda Lake towing his sail boat because the wind died and he had no motor. If you're willing to sail within 1/8th of a mile from shore and the dock, you might survive without a motor. If you know where you'll be sailing, check with other sailors who frequent that water. They often can give great "free" advice. That's how I ended up buying my first boat. Good luck.
especially in easy of sailing. I started in a Montego 20 shoal draft and have sailed in boats to 38'. My current boat is a Hunter 235 but I'd own a 30+ if I could get it into my slip without blocking the canal. If you want 4 to 5 adults I'g go to at least 20'. As to a motor ... yes, have one. My son loves to tell the story about the time he swam accross Onieda Lake towing his sail boat because the wind died and he had no motor. If you're willing to sail within 1/8th of a mile from shore and the dock, you might survive without a motor. If you know where you'll be sailing, check with other sailors who frequent that water. They often can give great "free" advice. That's how I ended up buying my first boat. Good luck.
Used
OK, you have probably figured out by now that a used boat is the way to go. Set a budget for a boat. 14ft, is too small for what you want to do. Check with your local sailing clubs and see what is popular. Ballasted hull or unballasted. Trailer or in a slip/mooring. The selection is huge. Price would probably be your best barometer. Make sure the boat and sails are in good condition. Look at more than one boat. You may miss on one but there is always another. Make friends with a veteran sailor and let him/her show you around but don't buy his or his friend's boat
.
OK, you have probably figured out by now that a used boat is the way to go. Set a budget for a boat. 14ft, is too small for what you want to do. Check with your local sailing clubs and see what is popular. Ballasted hull or unballasted. Trailer or in a slip/mooring. The selection is huge. Price would probably be your best barometer. Make sure the boat and sails are in good condition. Look at more than one boat. You may miss on one but there is always another. Make friends with a veteran sailor and let him/her show you around but don't buy his or his friend's boat
.140 is small and nice...
But if you want to sail comfortably with 5 adults, you won't do it far in a 140. We bought ours almost a year ago for lake sailing and have loved it. Mostly it is just the 2 of us, but we have had 5 adults while in a light breeze. It has been very easy to learn with, but already I'm thinking we should have gotten the 170. Whatever you do, buy used. I hope to be ready to move up in a few years and buying new was possibly my biggest mistake. The 140 is easy to rig, about 30 up and 30 down. I suspect the 170 would take only slightly longer. If you can find a used 170, I doubt you'd regret it.
But if you want to sail comfortably with 5 adults, you won't do it far in a 140. We bought ours almost a year ago for lake sailing and have loved it. Mostly it is just the 2 of us, but we have had 5 adults while in a light breeze. It has been very easy to learn with, but already I'm thinking we should have gotten the 170. Whatever you do, buy used. I hope to be ready to move up in a few years and buying new was possibly my biggest mistake. The 140 is easy to rig, about 30 up and 30 down. I suspect the 170 would take only slightly longer. If you can find a used 170, I doubt you'd regret it.
Hunter 23
I think you will outgrow a 14 or 17 foot boat before the first waxing has worn off. I once owned a 23 foot Hunter that was a great little boat and only paid $6000 on the used market. Unless I won the lottery I would never buy a new boat. There are just too many great deals around on used boats. You will be amazed at how easy it is to sail and wish you had gotten something bigger. A friend at the marina learned on his first boat which is a Pearson 42 footer. Do yourself a favor. If you are sure you got the bug, get the biggest boat you can afford. Ron/KA5HZV
I think you will outgrow a 14 or 17 foot boat before the first waxing has worn off. I once owned a 23 foot Hunter that was a great little boat and only paid $6000 on the used market. Unless I won the lottery I would never buy a new boat. There are just too many great deals around on used boats. You will be amazed at how easy it is to sail and wish you had gotten something bigger. A friend at the marina learned on his first boat which is a Pearson 42 footer. Do yourself a favor. If you are sure you got the bug, get the biggest boat you can afford. Ron/KA5HZV
Dick, Study like mad and then buy a H26. We
started sailing 1 1/2 years ago. Went thru a sailing class and bought the boat we wanted to have for the next bunch of years. If you just want to bay sail or sail in local small boat races then anything from 14 to 21 foot will work very well. If you see yourself wanting to spend weedends sailing and then moving up to weeks at a time then you will sorry for buying the small boat. We read everything we could about sailing. Starting with simple books about sailing smaller boats and moving up to the larger trailerable boats. Then we took a class. After that we bought a 1995 H26. It only took 1 season to learn to sail her and now we don't have to try and sell a smaller boat to buy the boat we really wanted. A side note about this journey. We are now in the process of selling our home and buying a 37 to 42 foot boat to do the roundy trip. This should start this summer. Buy the boat you really want and then learn how to sail her. Otherwise you will kick your fanny when in 2 months you have learned to sail a smaller boat and then want a bigger boat. Just go for it. We have a tendency in life to start everything to slowly. If you want to sail then just go do it! It won't get any better next week! The same can be said about starting in too small of a boat. Just buy the size boat you want 2 years from now and then spend the next 2 years learning how to sail her. Ray S/V Speedy
started sailing 1 1/2 years ago. Went thru a sailing class and bought the boat we wanted to have for the next bunch of years. If you just want to bay sail or sail in local small boat races then anything from 14 to 21 foot will work very well. If you see yourself wanting to spend weedends sailing and then moving up to weeks at a time then you will sorry for buying the small boat. We read everything we could about sailing. Starting with simple books about sailing smaller boats and moving up to the larger trailerable boats. Then we took a class. After that we bought a 1995 H26. It only took 1 season to learn to sail her and now we don't have to try and sell a smaller boat to buy the boat we really wanted. A side note about this journey. We are now in the process of selling our home and buying a 37 to 42 foot boat to do the roundy trip. This should start this summer. Buy the boat you really want and then learn how to sail her. Otherwise you will kick your fanny when in 2 months you have learned to sail a smaller boat and then want a bigger boat. Just go for it. We have a tendency in life to start everything to slowly. If you want to sail then just go do it! It won't get any better next week! The same can be said about starting in too small of a boat. Just buy the size boat you want 2 years from now and then spend the next 2 years learning how to sail her. Ray S/V Speedy
Thanks for all the great advice!
I had been wary of buying used because, frankly, I don't know what to watch out for. But I do have an opportunity to get a good used 170 so perhaps that's the way to start. Certainly the consensus here is that I should start used and as big as possible. Because I would be sailing in smaller inland lakes I've been shying away from a larger boat or a cabin model. I thought that 17 ft would be about right. Most of the time I'd probably sail with just my wife, but I have two sons in the 6-6'2" 150-210 lb range, so I'd need the capacity for the four of us. I have been reading a lot and have gone from "I'd like to sail, but the whole thing looks like a big hassle" to "I think I could do this". I'm also trying to fight the urge to run out and get something right away (I'm 51 and this whole thing probably falls under the heading of Midlife Crisis, but there's worse things I could do for a midlife crisis than buy a sailboat). I've just found a local sailing club, so perhaps I'll try and latch onto it, although they're mostly into racing as opposed to daysailing (I might possibly be interested in racing at some point, but not now). Again, thanks for all the great responses. They are truly appreciated.
I had been wary of buying used because, frankly, I don't know what to watch out for. But I do have an opportunity to get a good used 170 so perhaps that's the way to start. Certainly the consensus here is that I should start used and as big as possible. Because I would be sailing in smaller inland lakes I've been shying away from a larger boat or a cabin model. I thought that 17 ft would be about right. Most of the time I'd probably sail with just my wife, but I have two sons in the 6-6'2" 150-210 lb range, so I'd need the capacity for the four of us. I have been reading a lot and have gone from "I'd like to sail, but the whole thing looks like a big hassle" to "I think I could do this". I'm also trying to fight the urge to run out and get something right away (I'm 51 and this whole thing probably falls under the heading of Midlife Crisis, but there's worse things I could do for a midlife crisis than buy a sailboat). I've just found a local sailing club, so perhaps I'll try and latch onto it, although they're mostly into racing as opposed to daysailing (I might possibly be interested in racing at some point, but not now). Again, thanks for all the great responses. They are truly appreciated.
Sail away!
I have had my 170 for the past 4+ years (An O'Day Javalin (14') before then for 8 years). Got the 170 new. It looks big, enough to hold a large crew, but remember that no one can sit where the tiller turns. The boat could probably hold 4 while sailing, 3 on one side and the 4th on the low side (not me). I agree with others, that unless you are sailing on a becalmed day, the 170 is a bit too small for 4 adults. You would need to go bigger. (The 140 is better for 2 people -- who don't mind getting wet). But bigger boats have their problems for lake sailing. The 170 and 140 are easily trailered and set up, with a regular car. Any bigger boat, you may very well need a bigger car/truck. And to launch a bigger boat, you need a long deep ramp at your lake, which my lake does NOT have. Else, you will need to launch it with a sling ($100 a pop + reservation required). If you have not sailed before, I suggest smaller is better. The smaller the boat, the quicker you learn how to sail. Any mistake you make you feel -- immediately. Bigger boats are slower to respond and are more forgiving. You can probably pick up a new or used Laser for peanuts. Less stable, but righting it is much easier than the 170 (I KNOW). Bigger boats do not make bigger men. The olympic sailers sail on small boats. Almost any idiot can sail a big boat. I have seen them in Tortola, BVI.
I have had my 170 for the past 4+ years (An O'Day Javalin (14') before then for 8 years). Got the 170 new. It looks big, enough to hold a large crew, but remember that no one can sit where the tiller turns. The boat could probably hold 4 while sailing, 3 on one side and the 4th on the low side (not me). I agree with others, that unless you are sailing on a becalmed day, the 170 is a bit too small for 4 adults. You would need to go bigger. (The 140 is better for 2 people -- who don't mind getting wet). But bigger boats have their problems for lake sailing. The 170 and 140 are easily trailered and set up, with a regular car. Any bigger boat, you may very well need a bigger car/truck. And to launch a bigger boat, you need a long deep ramp at your lake, which my lake does NOT have. Else, you will need to launch it with a sling ($100 a pop + reservation required). If you have not sailed before, I suggest smaller is better. The smaller the boat, the quicker you learn how to sail. Any mistake you make you feel -- immediately. Bigger boats are slower to respond and are more forgiving. You can probably pick up a new or used Laser for peanuts. Less stable, but righting it is much easier than the 170 (I KNOW). Bigger boats do not make bigger men. The olympic sailers sail on small boats. Almost any idiot can sail a big boat. I have seen them in Tortola, BVI.
Hesitation
I hesited earlier to suggest a boat but from what I read, the 170 is too unstable for a first boat. I would suggest the Flying Scott or Highlander. Either of these would met your needs. I learned on a Lightning and that is also a good choice.
I hesited earlier to suggest a boat but from what I read, the 170 is too unstable for a first boat. I would suggest the Flying Scott or Highlander. Either of these would met your needs. I learned on a Lightning and that is also a good choice.
Flying Scot
... is also known with derision as a "Floating Sofa" by the guys in the local Lightning fleet. The Scot isn't going to get you there very fast, but there is LOTS of room inside, it's pretty stable, and is still a load of fun. I think it would be a pretty good choice as a "first boat" in a smaller body of water.
... is also known with derision as a "Floating Sofa" by the guys in the local Lightning fleet. The Scot isn't going to get you there very fast, but there is LOTS of room inside, it's pretty stable, and is still a load of fun. I think it would be a pretty good choice as a "first boat" in a smaller body of water.
H-26
My vote goes to the 26. Experience: Snark, 22 O'Day, H-26, Nonsuch 30, H-34. The 26 is the great all around teacher. We are now obsessed with our 34. The under 20 ft stuff is just for a day or two!!??
My vote goes to the 26. Experience: Snark, 22 O'Day, H-26, Nonsuch 30, H-34. The 26 is the great all around teacher. We are now obsessed with our 34. The under 20 ft stuff is just for a day or two!!??
Previous reader hit the nail on the head
It all depends on if you are going to trailer it or put it in a slip. I learned to sail when I was 11, but am now at 44 getting my own boat. I chose the 170. Don't consider the 140...you won't like the cramped seating. The 170 with cushions is quite comfortable. Also, regarding the early posts about the instability of it: the older 170s had a lighter centerboard and those blasted cupholders which leaked. Water in the hull will make the boat very unstable. Both of those problems have been fixed on the newer models. Don't discount what the guys are saying about the bigger boats...you and I will both be in 26 footers in a couple of years, but in the mean time trailering the 170 around is going to be just fine.
It all depends on if you are going to trailer it or put it in a slip. I learned to sail when I was 11, but am now at 44 getting my own boat. I chose the 170. Don't consider the 140...you won't like the cramped seating. The 170 with cushions is quite comfortable. Also, regarding the early posts about the instability of it: the older 170s had a lighter centerboard and those blasted cupholders which leaked. Water in the hull will make the boat very unstable. Both of those problems have been fixed on the newer models. Don't discount what the guys are saying about the bigger boats...you and I will both be in 26 footers in a couple of years, but in the mean time trailering the 170 around is going to be just fine.
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