These are the two boats I'm looking at. I have not had a chance to sail either one. Aside from the 170 being a larger boat that can hold more folks, is their much of a difference between the then. I also did a search for "foaming" like in foaming the mast, and nothing but 1 post came up.
14.6 VS. 170
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146 was my choice
Take a look at my review of the 146. This was my first full season with a brand new 2004 146. I love it. I chose it over the 170 mainly because I ould not justify the extra $3000. I don't need the extra room for stowage, and I can fit enough people. Trailering weight was also important to me. I carry on board with me: 3 extra PFDs, a dry bag, telescoping paddle, small towel, several bungees, extra mooring lines. They all conveniently fit in the forward section, some hanging from the battens there. There is nothing that sits aft of the mast when underway. I use a 1 1/2 hp motor. If I am packing a lunch, I just bungee that soft cooler to the mast and set it on the floor. I don't know how much more "people space" you get for $3000- some of the extra 1 1/2' on the 170 is in the stowage area up front, and the beam is only 6" wider. I don't believe you really have a great deal more room for people. I have had 4 on board comfortably - I think I can manage 3 adults and 2 kids very nicely. If you will be singlehanding, also consider that when winds are high, the more weight in the boat the better to help hike out and flatten her. You need less of this weight on the 146. (Though I think I remember you have a big dog - always willing crew!) I have posted elsewhere how far I have heeled over and never tipped this boat, even to the point of scooping water in over the side. I have seen lots of posts about the 170 flipping and turtling, but none about the 146. If you want more info, contact me directly. This boat is a dream to sail, extremely easy to rig/derig, and as carefree as a sailboat can be, while still being a "real" sailboat with a jib and main. You will not need to spend much more money on her either.
Take a look at my review of the 146. This was my first full season with a brand new 2004 146. I love it. I chose it over the 170 mainly because I ould not justify the extra $3000. I don't need the extra room for stowage, and I can fit enough people. Trailering weight was also important to me. I carry on board with me: 3 extra PFDs, a dry bag, telescoping paddle, small towel, several bungees, extra mooring lines. They all conveniently fit in the forward section, some hanging from the battens there. There is nothing that sits aft of the mast when underway. I use a 1 1/2 hp motor. If I am packing a lunch, I just bungee that soft cooler to the mast and set it on the floor. I don't know how much more "people space" you get for $3000- some of the extra 1 1/2' on the 170 is in the stowage area up front, and the beam is only 6" wider. I don't believe you really have a great deal more room for people. I have had 4 on board comfortably - I think I can manage 3 adults and 2 kids very nicely. If you will be singlehanding, also consider that when winds are high, the more weight in the boat the better to help hike out and flatten her. You need less of this weight on the 146. (Though I think I remember you have a big dog - always willing crew!) I have posted elsewhere how far I have heeled over and never tipped this boat, even to the point of scooping water in over the side. I have seen lots of posts about the 170 flipping and turtling, but none about the 146. If you want more info, contact me directly. This boat is a dream to sail, extremely easy to rig/derig, and as carefree as a sailboat can be, while still being a "real" sailboat with a jib and main. You will not need to spend much more money on her either.
Rigging time
Thanks for the info. On Hunters web site they said the rigging time was a 1/2 hour??? Seems kind of long, and looking a photos of the boat and can't see it taking more than 10 min. Do you have the float thing on top of your mast?
Thanks for the info. On Hunters web site they said the rigging time was a 1/2 hour??? Seems kind of long, and looking a photos of the boat and can't see it taking more than 10 min. Do you have the float thing on top of your mast?
170 vs 146
I bought the 170 after seeing a 146 for the first time,I fell in love with the 146 lines. In my case, I was looking for the largest possible day sail boat that I could get and still store it in my tight car port along my garage, the 170 was the boat of my choice. As to the "Mast Foaming", I did post on this subject with the Mast Foaming and "test results".I don't know if this is the one you read, there has been others. If you are interested in the FOAMING PROCEDURE AND THE TEST RESULTS I can e-mail them to you. If your looking for a good day sail boat, easy to tow, rig, clutter free deck, plenty of head room so you don't have to duck to avoid the boom, you will be hard pressed to find a better boat than these two. Glenn
I bought the 170 after seeing a 146 for the first time,I fell in love with the 146 lines. In my case, I was looking for the largest possible day sail boat that I could get and still store it in my tight car port along my garage, the 170 was the boat of my choice. As to the "Mast Foaming", I did post on this subject with the Mast Foaming and "test results".I don't know if this is the one you read, there has been others. If you are interested in the FOAMING PROCEDURE AND THE TEST RESULTS I can e-mail them to you. If your looking for a good day sail boat, easy to tow, rig, clutter free deck, plenty of head room so you don't have to duck to avoid the boom, you will be hard pressed to find a better boat than these two. Glenn
Rig time from trailer or at dock?
I keep my boat at a dock. I am underway in less than 8 minutes. I have rigged/derigged to trailer only 3 times, so I do not have it down pat. I did buy quick-release pins to replace some of the crummy split rings they supply. If you trailer the boat, and add these easy to use pins, I would guess you could get it rigged in 20 minutes. Remember - it is not just the rigging - it is removing and stowing the tiedowns, launching, parking... I'm sure the trailer sailors will chime in here. BTW - you rarely get wet on this boat, in spite of it's size.
I keep my boat at a dock. I am underway in less than 8 minutes. I have rigged/derigged to trailer only 3 times, so I do not have it down pat. I did buy quick-release pins to replace some of the crummy split rings they supply. If you trailer the boat, and add these easy to use pins, I would guess you could get it rigged in 20 minutes. Remember - it is not just the rigging - it is removing and stowing the tiedowns, launching, parking... I'm sure the trailer sailors will chime in here. BTW - you rarely get wet on this boat, in spite of it's size.
Your right Tereza
Having your boat in the water is nice, I have only had that pleasure once while on a short trip to a local lake, we were able to keep our boats at the docks for 3 days. I do not leave anything in the boat when towing or storing so I must pack everything. Its not just about stepping the mast but in my case, attaching the cushions, Safety bag with 4 extra pdf's, bow cover, cost guard required articles, sail bag, ice chest, Honda 2 hp motor, fenders bow line, dock lines and a couple of towels. By the end of the season we have it down pretty good, about 35 -45 including lauching and parking. We sail in the ocean so, I wash it imediately at the boat launch area, fast towel dry and de rig, this takes a little bit more time, but I dont do it when I get home. I usualy sail on Saturdays so I pack my s-10 blazer Friday night, hook the boat on Saturday morning. when I return, I put the boat away and unpack on Sunday morning. As much as I would like to sail on Sundays, it's really hard Monday morning for us ! So, if your talking about the time it takes to rig your boat I suspect there are those who can do it in less time,but this works for us. here is a laugh for you, the first time my wife and I rigged our boat for the very first time by ourselfs, it took us two hours, we didnt know what we were doing ! Now its a breeze.......
Having your boat in the water is nice, I have only had that pleasure once while on a short trip to a local lake, we were able to keep our boats at the docks for 3 days. I do not leave anything in the boat when towing or storing so I must pack everything. Its not just about stepping the mast but in my case, attaching the cushions, Safety bag with 4 extra pdf's, bow cover, cost guard required articles, sail bag, ice chest, Honda 2 hp motor, fenders bow line, dock lines and a couple of towels. By the end of the season we have it down pretty good, about 35 -45 including lauching and parking. We sail in the ocean so, I wash it imediately at the boat launch area, fast towel dry and de rig, this takes a little bit more time, but I dont do it when I get home. I usualy sail on Saturdays so I pack my s-10 blazer Friday night, hook the boat on Saturday morning. when I return, I put the boat away and unpack on Sunday morning. As much as I would like to sail on Sundays, it's really hard Monday morning for us ! So, if your talking about the time it takes to rig your boat I suspect there are those who can do it in less time,but this works for us. here is a laugh for you, the first time my wife and I rigged our boat for the very first time by ourselfs, it took us two hours, we didnt know what we were doing ! Now its a breeze.......
170 piece of cake
I have a 170, it is very easy to step the mast & rig. I do it all the time with no help from the crew! It's alot easier rigging this boat than other boats I have had. ie: o'Day. If you can afford the 170 go for it. It's well worth it. We love it.
I have a 170, it is very easy to step the mast & rig. I do it all the time with no help from the crew! It's alot easier rigging this boat than other boats I have had. ie: o'Day. If you can afford the 170 go for it. It's well worth it. We love it.
setup time
Plan on at least 30-40 minutes to go from trailer to sailing. I agree whole heartedly with the others who suggest replacing the split rings with quick connect pins. Worth every penny. That change alone cuts 5 minutes off of setup. I usually have my wife helping with the mast. Getting pfd's, cooler, lines, etc ready falls to my 12 year old and whichever of her friends comes along for the day. We love our 170. This time of year you have to get lucky with the weather around here, but we will hold out as long as we can before we call it quits for the winter.
Plan on at least 30-40 minutes to go from trailer to sailing. I agree whole heartedly with the others who suggest replacing the split rings with quick connect pins. Worth every penny. That change alone cuts 5 minutes off of setup. I usually have my wife helping with the mast. Getting pfd's, cooler, lines, etc ready falls to my 12 year old and whichever of her friends comes along for the day. We love our 170. This time of year you have to get lucky with the weather around here, but we will hold out as long as we can before we call it quits for the winter.
rig time
I can get the boat rigged on the trailer in about 20 minutes. That does not include trailer parking and dropping in the water. Those two things vary greatly depending on where you launch and how busy it is. I have not single handed rigging yet. The big obstacle is that when the base of the mast is in the step, the balance point of the rigging is about 1 foot behind the stearn. I have thought about making a mast support that can hold the mast up b/c the cb prevenst you from puting the base of the mast into the step unless it is elevated about 6" off of stearn mast support supplied with the boat. I want to caution those of you who have chosen to use speed pins in your rigging. If you are going to do that, DO NOT use the ball detent style pins. Make sure you have a positive lock on the pin. Ball detent pins will back out especially if there is slack in the shrouds. I use speed pins in the baby shrouds and locking pins in the forestay and main shrouds. If a pin gives way under sail, expect a lot of expensive damage at a minimum. In most scenarios I have witnessed, you will also end up with at least one crew member that requires immediate medical attention.
I can get the boat rigged on the trailer in about 20 minutes. That does not include trailer parking and dropping in the water. Those two things vary greatly depending on where you launch and how busy it is. I have not single handed rigging yet. The big obstacle is that when the base of the mast is in the step, the balance point of the rigging is about 1 foot behind the stearn. I have thought about making a mast support that can hold the mast up b/c the cb prevenst you from puting the base of the mast into the step unless it is elevated about 6" off of stearn mast support supplied with the boat. I want to caution those of you who have chosen to use speed pins in your rigging. If you are going to do that, DO NOT use the ball detent style pins. Make sure you have a positive lock on the pin. Ball detent pins will back out especially if there is slack in the shrouds. I use speed pins in the baby shrouds and locking pins in the forestay and main shrouds. If a pin gives way under sail, expect a lot of expensive damage at a minimum. In most scenarios I have witnessed, you will also end up with at least one crew member that requires immediate medical attention.
I went with the 170
I bought a 170 in the spring. I wanted the size over the 146. The boat moves very easily even in light winds. As far as the rigging goes. I've only rigged off the trailer, so I've gotten it down to about 20 mins from pulling in to backing into the water. There are some tips on this forum that U I got that were very helpful. First - replace the chain plates with the quick release ones. I don't even detach the stays after the mast is dow. Second - I got a push button quick release pin for the head stay - where it atahces to the furler. Third - I got a large diameter PVC pipe, and screw on end caps (at Home Depot) and using those pipe clamps (that you use a screwdriver to tighten) secured it to the trailer (above the frame, below the boat running lengthwise) - I just slide the boom into the pipe when I'm done - leave the vang on too. Carl.
I bought a 170 in the spring. I wanted the size over the 146. The boat moves very easily even in light winds. As far as the rigging goes. I've only rigged off the trailer, so I've gotten it down to about 20 mins from pulling in to backing into the water. There are some tips on this forum that U I got that were very helpful. First - replace the chain plates with the quick release ones. I don't even detach the stays after the mast is dow. Second - I got a push button quick release pin for the head stay - where it atahces to the furler. Third - I got a large diameter PVC pipe, and screw on end caps (at Home Depot) and using those pipe clamps (that you use a screwdriver to tighten) secured it to the trailer (above the frame, below the boat running lengthwise) - I just slide the boom into the pipe when I'm done - leave the vang on too. Carl.
Jeff Wessel - quick release pins letting go?
Have you seen this happen first hand! I thought that the ball-lock pins claimed to have very strong holding power, and were meant for such applications. I just received 6 that I will be using in place of gooseneck pin, mainsheet sheave to deck, forestay, shrouds. A tad scary, to say the least.
Have you seen this happen first hand! I thought that the ball-lock pins claimed to have very strong holding power, and were meant for such applications. I just received 6 that I will be using in place of gooseneck pin, mainsheet sheave to deck, forestay, shrouds. A tad scary, to say the least.
Quick Release Pins
Tereza and others, Pins are not pins. The push button style quick releases WILL NOT RELEASE!!!! There are many styles of these pins but it doesn't matter. If they are a good pins, fit into a true hole of the correct diameter and have the pushbutton (which locks the detent ball ball against a mandrel. Pushing the button moves the mandrel and allows the detent ball to move back into a recess in the mandrel thus releasing the pin), you are set. Now, if they are detent ball "Fastpins" as they are sometimes called, which do not have pushbuttons, I don't know... These pins have the detent ball pushing aginst a spring. A good pull on these pins allows the ball to be pushed agianst the spring and it is released, a much less positive stop. I would imagine that the prior post is talking about these... but both utilize detent balls. I only use and only recommend those with pushbuttons. Cost is about twice, $20 or so vesus $10, but purchase the pushbutton style. Hope this clears this up. Rusty
Tereza and others, Pins are not pins. The push button style quick releases WILL NOT RELEASE!!!! There are many styles of these pins but it doesn't matter. If they are a good pins, fit into a true hole of the correct diameter and have the pushbutton (which locks the detent ball ball against a mandrel. Pushing the button moves the mandrel and allows the detent ball to move back into a recess in the mandrel thus releasing the pin), you are set. Now, if they are detent ball "Fastpins" as they are sometimes called, which do not have pushbuttons, I don't know... These pins have the detent ball pushing aginst a spring. A good pull on these pins allows the ball to be pushed agianst the spring and it is released, a much less positive stop. I would imagine that the prior post is talking about these... but both utilize detent balls. I only use and only recommend those with pushbuttons. Cost is about twice, $20 or so vesus $10, but purchase the pushbutton style. Hope this clears this up. Rusty
quick release pin
I am still using the split rings on my 170. Since I leave it moored all season it is not THAT big a deal. I was able to unrig it at the ramp, when I pulled it out for the season, pretty quickly while a jetski motored impatiently motored back and forth waiting to use the ramp (I couldn't pull mine off the ramp because of a low tree overhang), but I probably would have saved a few of my fingernails if I were using the quick release pins. What size quick release (push button style) pins are people using? It is a testament to the 170 that I was able to unrig so quickly in spite of it being my first time. BTW - we were able to make amends with the jetski and company later when they needed help loading it onto their trailer.
I am still using the split rings on my 170. Since I leave it moored all season it is not THAT big a deal. I was able to unrig it at the ramp, when I pulled it out for the season, pretty quickly while a jetski motored impatiently motored back and forth waiting to use the ramp (I couldn't pull mine off the ramp because of a low tree overhang), but I probably would have saved a few of my fingernails if I were using the quick release pins. What size quick release (push button style) pins are people using? It is a testament to the 170 that I was able to unrig so quickly in spite of it being my first time. BTW - we were able to make amends with the jetski and company later when they needed help loading it onto their trailer.
David - puick-release pin sizes
Mine is a Hunter 146, so can't guarantee sizes will match, though I would think the hardware is identical. Before spending the money, try writing to Hunter to confirm. Forestay pins top and bottom - 3/4" L x 1/4" d Shrouds - 1/2" L x 1/4" d Boom gooseneck - 1 1/4" L x 1/4" d Mainsheet sheave (to cockpit floor) - 3/4" L x 3/16" d (Measure twice, order once!) Rusty... Thanks for the clarification - the positive lock pins are what should be used as opposed to the pins like those in the shroud tensioners supplied by Hunter - those just pop out with a good strong jerk. I suppose those are OK there, because all that would do is loosen the shroud, and not disconnect it, though I don't think I'ld like to experience that happening while under sail.
Mine is a Hunter 146, so can't guarantee sizes will match, though I would think the hardware is identical. Before spending the money, try writing to Hunter to confirm. Forestay pins top and bottom - 3/4" L x 1/4" d Shrouds - 1/2" L x 1/4" d Boom gooseneck - 1 1/4" L x 1/4" d Mainsheet sheave (to cockpit floor) - 3/4" L x 3/16" d (Measure twice, order once!) Rusty... Thanks for the clarification - the positive lock pins are what should be used as opposed to the pins like those in the shroud tensioners supplied by Hunter - those just pop out with a good strong jerk. I suppose those are OK there, because all that would do is loosen the shroud, and not disconnect it, though I don't think I'ld like to experience that happening while under sail.
quick release pins
Just to clarify, I was refering to the pins that come out with a good tug. I have always heard them refered to as speed pins. I saw a guy on Higgins Lake lose a forestay on a Laser that was pinned with one of these. It worked its way out and the mast came down on him. He didn't have anywhere to escape to and was broken up pretty badly. One other accident I have seen was a shroud give way on a Hobie while it was flying a hull. That time I was not out there to try to assist but I heard later on that the guy only suffered cuts, scrapes, and a good scare. He was sailing with frayed shouds that he was planning to replace at the end of the season. Another big no-no.
Just to clarify, I was refering to the pins that come out with a good tug. I have always heard them refered to as speed pins. I saw a guy on Higgins Lake lose a forestay on a Laser that was pinned with one of these. It worked its way out and the mast came down on him. He didn't have anywhere to escape to and was broken up pretty badly. One other accident I have seen was a shroud give way on a Hobie while it was flying a hull. That time I was not out there to try to assist but I heard later on that the guy only suffered cuts, scrapes, and a good scare. He was sailing with frayed shouds that he was planning to replace at the end of the season. Another big no-no.
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