Recently aquired 1992 First 38s5 and I probably need some advice...

[Skookum Chuck]

Greetings Beneteau Owners,

I'm hoping to connect with anyone who currently owns or has experience with the First 38 from the early 90's. I recently purchased one and I'm gradually getting to know the various systems. Most of which aren't working! But my plan is to get the important stuff back in order. Currently diagnosing the shower sump pumps. New pumps installed, but no power beyond the panel switch.

Thanks,
Chuck

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

New pumps installed, but no power beyond the panel switch.

I think something may be missing here because if "The power stops at the panel switch" isn't the problem the panel switch ? ? ? ?

You need a new switch because the current one is not closing. I'm sure you didn't mean this so please clarify.

 

[Skookum Chuck]

Ralph, thanks for your reply and keen observations! To clarify, the switch is functional and there is power at the bus bar behind the switch panel when the switch is closed. There are three sets of wires running to the pumps below the aft berth. The bilge pump circuit is good and the bilge pump operates. The two shower sumps do not function and there's no power in those circuits where the connect to the pumps. I haven't found any fuses or breakers in the pump circuits and I would expect them to be easily accessible.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

There are three sets of wires running to the pumps below the aft berth.

Thanks Chuck, I'm starting to get the picture.

Firstly, you say there are three "sets" of wires running to the pumps. What does each "set" of wires consist of ...... one, two, or how many wires ? And exactly where are these three "sets" of wires starting from (from the load side of the panel switch or ? ? ?).

Above is a map to switches.

 

[Skookum Chuck]

The "sets" are pairs of wires, red & black, one pair for each pump. There are three pairs in the wire bundle that serves the shower and bilge pumps. The wires have labels which correspond to the numbers on the list of electric circuits that came from Beneteau. These wires start at the load side of the panel and terminate in a plastic electrical box behind the engine compartment, below the aft berth. Circuits 161 and 162 are for the forward and aft shower pumps, respectively. I have not determined whether these wires run directly from the load side of the panel to the electrical box, but that is what I suspect. The wires "emerge" from the aft end of the compartment, between the hull and cockpit. I thought there may be inline fuses or breakers somewhere between the panel and the pump location. Also, it seems strange that there is only one shower pump switch and two shower pumps. I thought there might be a float switch at each shower sump but I don't see any place where a float switch would fit. Question: Are the shower sump pumps designed to run dry if only one shower is in use? Knowing the original design would really help with troubleshooting.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Any chances of getting pictures of each part such as the "electrical box" as well as the shower sump pump and the proximity of its float operator PLUS a picture of the shower sump pump showing where the float operator would be expected to be. No float operator doesn't sound very nice at all. Lots of pictures. Nobody ever complained about too many pictures.

It would be helpful if you've got a low level app that will allow you to insert labels, comments, curses into each picture as well. If not, describe each picture as best you can.

Mabe lift as many floor boards as possible.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

These wires start at the load side of the panel and terminate in a plastic electrical box behind the engine compartment, below the aft berth.

You're sure there are three sets of wires leaving the load side of the ONE panel switch or do I misunderstand ? Or are we talking three (3) panel switches ?

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Question: Are the shower sump pumps designed to run dry if only one shower is in use?

Highly unlikely.

Check out the archives of this site and you may find a wiring diagram for your boat. I've found far stranger stuff in there.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

Just out of curiosity, do you live near your boat or is it remote ?

And do you know how to use a multimeter ? You sound like you do.

 

[Skookum Chuck]

I'll get some photos next time I'm at the boat, it's about 1 hour drive from where I live. I do have a multi-meter, which I have used to troubleshoot. As for the "panel" and switch layout: There is a single toggle switch for both shower sumps. The load wire from that switch connects to the "panel" which is basically a bus bar directly behind the switch panel at the nav station. The bus bar/panel has plug-in jumpers which allow a single input wire on the supply side to connect to more than one connector on the load side. Picture of panel attached. In this photo, the jumper for the shower sump circuit is in the wrong position, which I did intentionally to isolate the separate pump circuits on the load side. There are no fuses or breakers except for a few odd in-line fuses which appear to be aftermarket for other circuits. Photo of the bus bar below, this is directly behind the switch panel. It just occurred to me that the pump wires may run through the starboard lazarette, so I'll be checking that on my next visit.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

How many photos did you post ? I only see one.

 

[Skookum Chuck]

Just that one photo, that's all I have at the moment.

 

[fred1diver]

I know nothing about your boat, but quick question, does the sump pump work like a bilge pump? As in could there be a float switch that is not connected or working ?
I ask because to me it seems weird that both sump pumps be on the same switch.
I maybe completely wrong, but why wire both to the same switch?

 

[Skookum Chuck]

I agree, it's unusual that both shower sumps are on the same switch. So far I have not located any float switches or wiring at the shower sumps. The wiring schematic from Beneteau does not show any electrical components at the shower sumps. But it does show the shower sump pumps wired to the same switch at the panel. From what I could see, the sumps are shallow and connect directly to the 3/4" drain tubing that runs to the pumps.

 

[JRacer]

On my 1992 First 310, the panel (on off switches) are breakers. From there the hot wire runs to the Wago connectors (shown in the OP's photo). from the wago buss bar, the hot runs to a push button momentary switch mounted on the sink in the head which has a black plastic cap (cover) on it that looks like a cap nut (hides the momentary push button switch). From there, the hot runs to the pump located in the aft cabin under the berth (similar to the OP's description). The ground side should be running from the wago buss directly to the pump. So to run the shower sump pump, you switch on the appropriate breaker on the panel and press and hold the momentary switch to run the pump, release the momentary switch to shut it off. I suspect the OP's setup is similar.

 

[Skookum Chuck]

JRacer, that makes perfect sense, thank you. And I just found another thread discussing the shower sump timed relay switch located in the head, so I just need to find it.