Electronics

capta · Monday at 3:53 PM

If you've had good luck with the Garmin GPS, then get a unit from them. You already have an idea of how they classify the various functions. Same with the radio. You are your best product reviewer, in this case.
Get what you can afford, however, I'd suggest many retail outlets may be overstocked for the winter up north, so watch for sales.

marcham · Monday at 3:54 PM

Congrats on the new to you boat!

Given your use of the vessel, if it was mine, I would in order of priority:

Depth sounder
Modernize the VHF, wind speed.
Setup a USB-C charger at the helm, run Aquamaps for charts on a phone/tablet. You can buy a cheap new or used android tablet to run it.
Autopilot. When single-handing, this is almost a must-have safety piece of gear
AIS transceiver is debatable... .it's value really depends on how you use the boat. There are many mobile apps that will show you nearby ships and their name.

Yes, I would start from scratch with a modern NMEA 2000 / ST NG network. Your equipment is well past it's expected lifespan if it's original. I personally stay away from wireless instrument devices, as they can be troublesome, but they do simplify installation for the mast head.

I would strongly suggest doing it all at once. Or a minimum, setup the new network backbone and power cables (VHF/Autopilot) everywhere all at once, and then later on connect new equipment to it. When you have the boat torn apart to pull strings and then new cables, you really want to get as much done as you can in one shot.

For example you could:
Run backbone from helm to cabinet where autopilot computer and compass would be installed, then inside the cabin near where the depth and mast instruments would be connected. (with Raymarine, you could stick with analogue depth/wind and use an ITC-5 installed somewhere in the cabin, then a single backbone back to the helm) Garmin uses a similar setup with the GND10 network bridge.

How much sailing do you do in reduced visibility? If you routinely sail in less than 2 NM visibility, then AIS transceiver is a fantastic aid. Otherwise, a VHF with built-in AIS receiver might satisfy your data needs? Also, how is the cell coverage where you sail? There are many cell phone apps to get AIS data from other ships (in sight of land).

Have you researched how to hook up an autopilot to your vessel? I presume it's weight qualifies it for wheel pilot? (This is by far the easiest to install). A rudder position sensor is a big bonus, but not required on all installations.

You certainly can do it gradually, but it will cost you more and take a LOT more time. You'll need to integrate old networks with newer networks, which can be tricky and troublesome. Autopilot and AIS transceiver would probably be the easier to add a a later time. Getting the basics (VHF, depth) updated and reliable would be my priority.

Another neat option is adding a NMEA 2000 to wifi adapter. This allows you to get all your ship's instruments data, including received AIS targets on your phone/tablet (with Aquamaps / Navionics Boating). With Aquamaps, you can even have your autopilot follow your track, instead of just using heading mode.

Yacht Devices Wifi gateway YDWG-02
Actisense W2K-2

This will also feed your ship's GPS source to your phone/tablet (separate NMEA 2000 GPS, VHF radio GPS, AIS radio GPS, etc... there are many possible sources), so you'll know you'll have a real position, not a phone's estimated position, which can be very imprecise at times.

Use a RAM-Mount phone/tablet holder at the helm and get a good water resistant screen. We sailed for years with an old waterproof Samsung smartphone that never skipped a beat. The reason I stay away from a chartplotter (unless of couse, you want radar, then that forces your hand) is a phone/table is so much more versatile. They get new features almost monthly. The subscriptions are much cheaper. You can install dozens of other apps that make them more useful than a plotter. You can route plan at home and there's no need to transfer once at your boat (or in the warm cozy cabin in the evening).... A new radar is the only thing that would convince me to install a new chartplotter.

The only and main disadvantage of a phone/tablet is brightness. A marine chartplotter will always be easier to see in bright sun. This is not an issue if you have a bimini. The touch screen on a plotter also work better with wet fingers, but I've also seen the screen go completely crazy with water/salt spots and had to disable it in inclement weather, limiting us to using the buttons. Even with a B&G plotter on a past boat, we always had a phone/tablet, and ended up using that more unless using radar, forward looking depth sounder, control the stereo (NMEA 200), etc....

My only deviation from a no plotter recommendation is if you are very restricted in terms of space at the helm. If you can only install a plotter and have no room for other displays/autopilot control, then IMHO, you should seriously look at B&G. Their Zeus displays does a great job of integrating all your data, autopilot and VHF radio on a single screen. Garmin/Raymarine do it, but not as elegantly. Yes, programming /configuring the B&G will take some time... and after 3 years, we were still constantly in the owner's manual for using advanced features. Warning: their gear is not cheap!

Each OEM has published a detailed manual, but the learning curve is pretty steep.

Raymarine SeatalkNG Reference Manual
Garmin Technical Reference for Garmin NMEA 2000 Products
(Not sure if B&G has something similar, but I would not recommend their products for a newby DIY... they have GREAT features for sailing and especially racing, but technically a bit more complex).

My advise is go to your local boat show next winter, that's usually where you'll find the best prices and rebates.

What's the condition of the Universal/Westerbeke Diesel? Sails? When was the standing rigging last replaced?

Are you willing/able to spend $10 000 on electronics on a 30 year old boat? What do you need, what do you want, what is broken?

Keep in mind that beyond the cost of the equipment, you will need marine wiring, fuses, network backbone cables, etc, etc. etc.... In our last ship's electronic/electrical upgrade, the hardware (sensors, displays, main "boxes") cost about $8000, and we had $3000 in other miscellaneous supplies (wiring, fuses, hardware, cables, fasteners, sealant, etc..). Have fun....

kappykaplan · Monday at 3:59 PM

john6206 said:
Can you replace one box per year? Or is it better to swallow hard and get the suite?

What's your tolerance for BOAT (break out/bring on another thousand) unit outlays? My upgrade to full Raymarine N2K network was done in one fell swoop with two E90W displays (one in the cabin, one in the cockpit), new digital radar, and below deck autopilot. Cost was probably north of 8 BOAT units, including installation. I added AIS a couple of years later and had that integrated into the chart plotters. I'm only partial to Raymarine because the boatyard is, but I have no regrets. Good luck as you go down this path! :beer:

kappykaplan · Monday at 4:43 PM

Ya gotta do what ya gotta do! I dropped almost as much into the boat as I paid for it during the first winter refit (and I knew what I was getting into after the pre-purchase survey). New headstay and backstay, new lifelines, rebedded deck hardware (complicated by the need to correct core rot at seven stanchions), new water tanks to replace water bladders, major electric cable replacement from the forward house bank to the distribution bus, etc., etc., etc. It did make the boat much safer for the several trips I took the Boy Scouts on over the next several years. Bringing the electronics into the 21st century happened many years later after I had time to replenish the piggy bank.

marcham · Monday at 4:46 PM

Start with the basics and in order of priority keeping the ship seaworthy:
a) leaks (below the waterline first, above 2nd) and hull integrity (including thru-hulls and bilge pump)
b) engine and driveline
c) plumbing, hoses, exhaust, etc...
d) standing rigging
e) sails and running rigging
f) electrical
g) electronics
h) cosmetic stuff...

Once you get to g, there are probably new things that pop up in category a, it's a never ending cycle! Makes it kind of hard to work on cosmetics...

Buy a copy of Nigel Calder's Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual . I must have read mine 4 times cover to cover, I learn something new each time, and I've been toying with boats for 30 years!

Electronics is definitely the most fun upgrade, but honestly, all you really need is a depth sounder. Everything other electro gizmo is a bonus.

marcham · Monday at 4:57 PM

john6206 said:
Thanks for the advice everyone,
we are checking into options.

The problem I’ve had with Navionics… the charts on the iPad seem pretty accurate; charts on the phone are really wrong. If I plot a course on my iPad and then send it to my phone (that’s a handy feature) the one on the phone has us going into shallows or sometimes crossing land. I learned to trust the course and not the chart, but it freaked my wife out.

old phone? User error?

We NEVER use auto-routing..... I know of too many close calls and groundings... Even in Aquamaps (200pct better than Navionics), we don't trust the auto routing. For coastal and near-shore navigation: Read the chart, trust your depth finder, use your eyes.

The other issue with your phone, is you never really know what it is using to determine it's position. Sometimes it's very accurate with GPS, sometimes it's an old position, sometimes it's a "rough" estimated position. Phones without a sim card with the "high accuracy" position option selected seemed to do better, but ideally get a position from the ship's GPS. The phone's position can vary based on obstructions, power savings mode, software permissions and options.

kappykaplan · Monday at 5:00 PM

john6206 said:
If I plot a course on my iPad and then send it to my phone (that’s a handy feature) the one on the phone has us going into shallows or sometimes crossing land.

Sounds like a resolution issue. I've seen the same on my Garmin handheld on occasion.

shemandr · Monday at 5:10 PM

I think at this point it's better to get the suite all the same brand and compatible. While all will communicate thru the NMEA 2000 backbone, some of the bells and whistles will need a WiFi connection. I think there is one system that you have to load charts via WiFi. Just be mindful of the things you learn after the box is open. You may not want to put WiFi on your boat much less StarLink. Sellers are trying to move to subscription plans for updates of ENC's as well as other data. I'd adhere to the time tested KISS rule.
A modern VHF is really pretty powerful. It will have Lat/Long, waypoints, routes, speed and course, DSC, FM radio and doesn't cost a fortune.
Auto Pilot: A safety must.
Chart Plotter: Yes. But the large MFD is not a must have. And they are very pricey.
AIS receiver: If you will be sailing in poor visibility and there is shipping in your area.
Wind Instrument: Pretty much a waste of money IMHO.
AIS Sender: Unfortunately, you are lost in the clutter to other rec boats. And the big steel things aren't focused on the rec boats.
Depth Finder: I think of Lake Huron as being deep. But I don't know it.

Given your other projects you may want to investigate why the existing stuff doesn't work. It's likely there is a junction box somewhere. For 8 grand I would find it and redo the connections.

marcham · Monday at 5:45 PM

For me, if I sail alone, it's essential. When I have others onboard, even if they don't know how to sail or boat, it's a luxury... same goes for an electric windlass.

I rate a mast head wind instrument more important than an A/P because it tells me / warns me when to reef. 15 kts true sailing upwind is very different than 15 kts true sailing downwind...

I do practice from time to time hand steering, balancing the sails and then setting wheel brake on. The boat will usually stay within 10 degrees for a minute or more in most conditions. Knowing when, which and how much to reef is key.

dLj · Monday at 6:20 PM

john6206 said:
I‘ve been sailing small boats for something like 30 years. My nav aids have been my handheld Garmin and my handheld VHF. I bought a 30 year old Catalina 320 this year, and I think I need an electronics upgrade. I’m a bit overwhelmed looking at the interwebs and I’m looking for “where to start.”

Do not underestimate the value of having sailed small boats for many years. It has given you a lot of experience that may not feel like you have - but you do...

john6206 said:
Intended Application:
We hope to spend a couple weekends a month on the boat and do some day sailing in the Tawas Bay and Saginaw Bay (Lake Huron). We also plan to do at least one multi week cruise per summer.

It’s the cruising we are thinking about. On a long passage it would be nice to take your hands off the wheel for a bit, and I sure hope a dedicated chart plotter is more accurate than Navionics on my phone (seems to work great on my iPad, gets some REALLY freaky data on my phone).

You should define more clearly what you mean by "long passage".

john6206 said:
What do I need?
Having made a 400nm cruise this summer with pretty much the handheld garmin and the handheld VHF from the trailer boat (+ chart, compass, navionics on iPad)), we are trying to come up with priorities. Here’s what we came up with so far (in priority order)
modern VHF connected to an antenna, emergency button and gps location
chartplotter
AIS reciever
AIS transmitter
functioning wind instrument
Autopilot

OK, so first I must confess that I am not a proponent of all the modern electronics. It's just not needed and unless you like the gadgets and all that - they mostly are not "needed".... I am also not a big fan of having everything integrated. I prefer standalone systems better. If one of the gadgets fails - it's only that one gadget...

So given my bias, here's my list of "need".

1) I would like a good autopilot. This really makes sailing so much better! Of your gadgets list - I put this pretty close to a "need". Don't go cheap on this one - Pretty sure the Catalina 320 has a wheel. If you don't want to integrate your autopilot with a chart plotter then CPT makes a really nice unit.

CPT Autopilot Inc.

The CPT Autopilot is a reliable autopilot designed for sailboats and power boats with wheel steering.

cptautopilot.com

It will cost you between about $2k and $2.5k. Any other unit with a similar reliability will cost quite a bit more. You will have to bring 12V to your pedestal. That's a good thing anyway as then you can also put in a connection for your tablet...

2) Depth sounder. I put this second as you can do a lot of things without, but it does make life a lot easier sailing. I also carry a lead line. I put a lead line above a depth sounder because it is actually much more versatile and really can't break. But a depth sounder is a lot easier to use as long as it's working.

3) A Windex Wind Vane. It's about $40 to $50 dollars. I have a windex and use it a lot. I also have a wind direction/wind speed unit. I really only use the wind speed if I'm recording windspeed information. I never use the wind direction indicator - I use my Windex. I only record windspeed when on long passages - like crossing oceans. I never do it for day sails or shorter trips.

The rest are more "nice to have's".

AIS transponder is very nice if you are sailing through a lot of shipping lanes or crowded cruising grounds. Otherwise - not worth the expense.

Chartplotter is an expensive kit. You are doing just fine with what you have. I have a chartplotter, an onboard computer, a secondary chart plotter and my cell phone. But I have done that to decide what I feel is necessary. A tablet is fine. I only feel the need for the chart plotter if I'm doing long passages. My definition of a long passage is pretty much off shore, like going from the Chesapeake to Nova Scotia or longer. If I'm sailing non-stop for several days, that's getting into what I consider a long passage. Sounds to me like you already have this well covered. I don't feel you need one.

I am a firm believer in the KISS principal...

I see you just posted this question as I was writing this response.

john6206 said:
My biggest surprise is that most of you rate the autopilot as a higher priority than I did. A couple of you called it a necessary safety feature. I was thinking it was a really cool luxury.

Can you elaborate? Are you thinking short handed sail handling?

On a long passage, or single handing, or short handing - it essentially gives you another "person" that steers the boat while you can go do other things, like tend to sails, relax while it steers your boat, go cook some food, whatever. On long passages, one of the most dangerous things is fatigue. An autopilot can really relieve that risk.

dj

marcham · Monday at 6:31 PM

Using a modern architecture (is N2K really modern???) significantly reduces points of failure and complexity. One cable to pull instead of 3. Power and communications are integrated, simplifying installation. Loose the depth display? You can see it elsewhere. There is only one point of power injection, one breaker/fuse to track down. If one has separate depth/speed/wind instruments that are independent, you have 3 power connections, 3 wires going through the entire boat, a failure of a sensor or display means loosing that information. Troubleshooting is dirt easy with an N2K architecture. From a systems design and integration point of view, a networked instrumentation is simpler and less prone to failure. It's also more fault tolerant. There's a reason there's been marine networks for what 40 years now?

I have a different take on AP. Not using it during normal day sails (30-40 NM) especially when doing more miles, keeps the person at the helm alert and engaged in SAILING, navigating, etc... as opposed to just sitting back in the cockpit and taking part in other tasks / conversations. In the Pacific Norhwest coastal waters, hitting an errant dead head (log) is always a risk. There's floating fishing nets/lines, huge weed pools and many other obstacles to avoid. I find that if we're at the helm, that person is 100 pct focussed on the boat, the water and sail trim. Things tend to go a bit more lax when the AP is engaged. Now if I was doing 100 NM plus a day, that's a different battle rhythm altogether. We take turns at the helm (about every 2 hrs), have meals pre-planned and probably lunch ready in the morning before casting off, etc... my 2 cents. Yes it's useful, but it's not essential.

dLj · Monday at 7:01 PM

marcham said:
Using a modern architecture (is N2K really modern???) significantly reduces points of failure and complexity. One cable to pull instead of 3. Power and communications are integrated, simplifying installation. Loose the depth display? You can see it elsewhere. There is only one point of power injection, one breaker/fuse to track down. If one has separate depth/speed/wind instruments that are independent, you have 3 power connections, 3 wires going through the entire boat, a failure of a sensor or display means loosing that information. Troubleshooting is dirt easy with an N2K architecture. From a systems design and integration point of view, a networked instrumentation is simpler and less prone to failure. It's also more fault tolerant. There's a reason there's been marine networks for what 40 years now?

Great point of view and nice counter point.

I'm also going to relate a different point of view. I was just on a boat sailing for 2 months that had exactly this architecture. It had a problem in the N2K backbone - we think - I'm not sure they actually know for sure yet.

The boat had fully integrated everything. This was a multi-million dollar boat. Quite "yachty" in fact... 4 hours after leaving port we lost all navigation capabilities. It had 3 chart plotters all part of the same network - none worked. We actually went back to port and the owner called in the experts on his system and they couldn't figure it out. Two highly trained experts in that specific system spent a day on the boat and could not figure out the problem. They did get it so we had a work-around good enough to head off. We fought with that system for the entire two months. We would be sailing along and it would glitch out and we would have to reboot the entire network to get it back up and useable. Shutting it down and booting it back up took several minutes. not a warm and fuzzy coming into a narrow channel. The worst part was when it glitched out, the boat would do a hard to port maneuver - and we couldn't disconnect the integrated autopilot - well, initially. We found a work-around for that... But you had to be at one specific nav station to do it...

The fully integrated chart plotter screens, with radar, AIS and charts overlay were hard to decipher. I would often turn off the radar overlay, especially when coming into port because the screen would get so cluttered it was actually hard to know what was what. Quite frankly, after that experience - I'll never go to a fully integrated system. Whatever glitch was happening - you could not get any information - you didn't get to see it somewhere else - the entire system was non-functional. Once we got the autopilot disconnected, we were hand steering and blind to absolutely every sensor on the ship. No depth, no radar, no charts - nothing.

Yes, with independent systems, you have more wires. But if I loose one unit - it doesn't take down the whole system. Troubleshooting dirt easy? Not my experience. In fact, massively complicated.

dj

marcham · Monday at 7:32 PM

dLj said:
... It had 3 chart plotters all part of the same network - none worked. We actually went back to port and the owner called in the experts on his system and they couldn't figure it out. Two highly trained experts in that specific system spent a day on the boat and could not figure out the problem. They did get it so we had a work-around good enough to head off. We fought with that system for the entire two months. We would be sailing along and it would glitch out and we would have to reboot the entire network to get it back up and useable. Shutting it down and booting it back up took several minutes. not a warm and fuzzy coming into a narrow channel.

Then they weren't experts! The plotters didn't power ON? didn't have GPS position? Didn't display network data? Didn't display charts? Were these just displays linked to a computer elsewhere on the boat or actual independent chart plotters?

An N2K network takes 10 seconds at most to be up and running, not minutes. I figure that vessel had a highly complex system, likely using ethernet, multiple computers (PCs) to run the ECDIS. That is nothing like most pleasure crafts. Likely it would have required factory support to at least understand the architecture and understand the troubleshooting sequence. It's just not practical to pull a depth / speed / rudder position sensor wire 200 feet away on a large boat, much simpler more reliable to hook it up to a network and run it down the backbone. I'm not sure that the custom, often one off, systems design and integration for a million dollar yacht can be compared to the simple instrument network we use on a 100 000$ pleasure craft.

Your car is fully integrated. Everything works off a network bus (engine, aircon, ABS, ESC, dash, etc....) ... just like an N2K network on a boat (SAE J1939 ). Yes, a short in the radio could bring the whole bus down on your car and cause it not to start. But the chances of that are infinitely small.

Look at airplanes. Why are even the most basic general aviation coming from the factory with a glass cockpit as opposed to have a separate 6 pack and separate engine dials? Yes, there is absolutely a learning curve. I probably only used about 60 pct of the capability of B&G plotter on my previous boat. Radar is easily switched ON/OFF only when needed, same goes for AIS (you can usually setup filters to only show dangerous targets). We had setup our plotter with multiple different screen setups. One for harbour. One for racing. One for night. One for cruising. One for entering shallow anchorages.... each had their pre-set data, overlays, zoom, colours, etc... The right info at the right time, at your fingertip.

Troubleshooting a N2K network is simple:
a) identify the missing data, replace sensor when isolated
b) install a bus monitor, determine voltages and communications issues (device ID conflict, missing data, etc...)
c) logically disconnect suspect equipment to isolate suspected network faults

Compare that to an intermittent fault with just the depth sounder. Is the problem the display, the sounder, the power or the wiring between the sounder and the display? You don't get into those big "where do I start replacing parts?" problems with N2K.

Personally, I like to have a separate power/circuit breaker for VHF, Instruments, Autopilot and Radar. The Instruments, VHF, AP and Radar can each work on their own, without the other systems being powered. If the boat doesn't have separate breakers for that separation from the factory, then I usually install switches (and separate fuses) to isolate each main system. My AIS, VHF and Radar each have their own GPS source which can also be sent to the N2K network if required. I have 2 different ways to control the AP. The benefits of the N2K network far outweigh the infinitively small risk or having a network conflict that brings all the communications down. I have never seen that on a pleasure craft. The fix would be simple. Disconnect / depower the offending piece of equipment.

Loosing the depth/speed/wind sensor/ rudder angle does not bring down the N2K network, you just loose that information. Water temp sensors always seem to fail after 2-3 years. Wind speed indicators usually have to rebuilt every 3-5 years. If the tri data DST810 is replaced, there's no need to splice / solder /pull a new cable to the helm, just remove and plug-in to the N2K network. It's a 3 minute fix that can be done in the water!

Other than Depth, most electronics are a luxury. I can navigate on depth and heading alone if need be....

dLj · Monday at 8:44 PM

marcham said:
Then they weren't experts! The plotters didn't power ON? didn't have GPS position? Didn't display network data? Didn't display charts? Were these just displays linked to a computer elsewhere on the boat or actual independent chart plotters?

Yes they were experts. In fact really good ones.

Let's see, two plotters and a slave plotter. It could have been a standalone plotter but was set up to just display the information from the other two. There were also two other computers in the system... We actually removed one of them...

The devices froze. They didn't turn off. Just became frozen at whatever they had been showing at a point of time. Useless. And since it caused the rudder to drive the boat hard to port - dangerous.

marcham said:
An N2K network takes 10 seconds at most to be up and running, not minutes. I figure that vessel had a highly complex system, likely using ethernet, multiple computers (PCs) to run the ECDIS. That is nothing like most pleasure crafts. Likely it would have required factory support to at least understand the architecture and understand the troubleshooting sequence. It's just not practical to pull a depth / speed / rudder position sensor wire 200 feet away on a large boat, much simpler more reliable to hook it up to a network and run it down the backbone. I'm not sure that the custom, often one off, systems design and integration for a million dollar yacht can be compared to the simple instrument network we use on a 100 000$ pleasure craft.

We did have factory support. But whether or not you want to compare to a simple system or not - frankly I really don't like all the data put onto one screen.

Sure - 10 seconds to be up and running. But, in order to get up and running, we had to turn each individual unit off first. That took time as you had to use the power button in "override" mode which meant you had to push and hold the bottom long enough to shut the unit down. You had to do this with each piece of equipment. Then go back through, turn each unit back on and boot the system. That does not happen in 10 seconds, not even close...

marcham said:
Troubleshooting a N2K network is simple:
a) identify the missing data, replace sensor when isolated
b) install a bus monitor, determine voltages and communications issues (device ID conflict, missing data, etc...)
c) logically disconnect suspect equipment to isolate suspected network faults

Sounds good in theory - however - that first step - identify the missing data was what could not be done. It wasn't necessarily missing data - the entire system simply froze up and could not function. Identification of what was causing the system to freeze up could not be identified.

Point b) - with the system up and running we went through each and every point you mention - we were using sophisticated diagnostic equipment. Problem - when the system was up and running there were no error codes. No device ID conflicts, no missing data - nada. We tried monitoring the system when it was running to watch for a freeze up - it was a wily system and we could not get it to freeze while monitoring it... Pain in the a$$....

Point c) Now this is where a simpler system might be easier and we did pull some of the suspect that we felt might be the more likely culprits but never were able to identify the problem.

marcham said:
Compare that to an intermittent fault with just the depth sounder. Is the problem the display, the sounder, the power or the wiring between the sounder and the display? You don't get into those big "where do I start replacing parts?" problems with N2K.

This point is exactly why I prefer simpler standalone systems. If I've got an intermittent fault with my depth sounder - I know it's in my depth sounder system. It hasn't taken down my whole system. I'm only having problems with my depth sounder. I find that a lot easier to figure out.

marcham said:
Loosing the depth/speed/wind sensor/ rudder angle does not bring down the N2K network, you just loose that information. Water temp sensors always seem to fail after 2-3 years. Wind speed indicators usually have to rebuilt every 3-5 years. If the tri data DST810 is replaced, there's no need to splice / solder /pull a new cable to the helm, just remove and plug-in to the N2K network. It's a 3 minute fix that can be done in the water!

right - but the problem was not loosing a sensor or a single piece of equipment - the whole system was down.

marcham said:
Other than Depth, most electronics are a luxury. I can navigate on depth and heading alone if need be....

Now we are certainly in agreement with this statement. Electronics are simply a luxury. (well running lights are mandatory) I don't need a depth sounder either. I'll run my lead line if I have depth issues.

For a boat to be ready to go off shore there are five fundamentals that need to be rock solid.

1) Keep the water out.
2) Keep the people on
3) Keep the mast up
4) Keep the keel down
5) Keep the rudder on

After that, it's all just gravy...

dj

dLj · Monday at 8:54 PM

marcham said:
Look at airplanes. Why are even the most basic general aviation coming from the factory with a glass cockpit as opposed to have a separate 6 pack and separate engine dials? Yes, there is absolutely a learning curve. I probably only used about 60 pct of the capability of B&G plotter on my previous boat. Radar is easily switched ON/OFF only when needed, same goes for AIS (you can usually setup filters to only show dangerous targets). We had setup our plotter with multiple different screen setups. One for harbour. One for racing. One for night. One for cruising. One for entering shallow anchorages.... each had their pre-set data, overlays, zoom, colours, etc... The right info at the right time, at your fingertip.

Airplanes have very different constraints than sailboats. Every single gram of weight is looked at to reduce weight. I don't remember the exact numbers, but for every pound of weight you take off, it reduces the forces in take off and landing by some significantly higher value. They are also running jet fuel, a rather expensive fuel source. Aviation has a much greater need to reduce weight than a sailboat. Perhaps the cutting edge foiling race boats are getting close, but certainly not cruising or pleasure sailboats... Different ball game. I could care less if I have an extra 100 pounds (or however much it may be) due to wiring...

dj