Good morning - I like the idea behind the Raritan KO2 kit: with every flush a little bit of C.P. is pushed through the pump (I've a SuperFlush) and through the bowl to prohibit low tide-like odors. It's on the pricey side, but includes a metering valve that appears to be expensive to buy on its own so is probably not a horrible deal. Oddly, while lots of stores stock the product I can find few comments about the product in the forums. Does anyone here have good or bad things to say about it? Thanks!
Looking for feedback on Raritan's Knock Out Odors (KO2) kit
- Thread starter JimHansen77
- Start date
To each his/her own. This is my solution to the problem that the Raritan's kit solves.
Alternative to Raritan Spray Kit
Alternative to Raritan Spray Kit
This approach does not get CP into the intake lines or the toilet bowl rim. That is, unless you have modified your system to be able to flush with water through the sink and you spray the CP into the sink before flushing. If I wanted a little CP in every flush that is what I would do. Not buy the expensive Raritan kit.
Fwiw, Raritan K.O. doesn't stand for "knockout"...it stands for Kills Odors. It was the first of the product line my company, Peal Products, (named "Pe" for Peggie, "al" for my husband Allen) developed and put on the market in 1987 and was also the first tank product that wasn't one of the gawdawful Thetford portapottie chemicals. Its active ingredient is live aerobic bacteria. CP ("cleans potties") is its companion product. I sold my product line to Raritan in 1999.
Raritan only markets C.P. as a bowl cleaner, but it happens to be the best sump and sink drain cleaner on the planet.
Sumps: Fill the sump at least 1/3 full with clean water...add 2-3 oz of CP when it can remain at least overnight (the bacteria need time to work)
Sink drains: close the drain thru-hull, put 1-2 oz of CP down the drain and fill the drain with clean water...again when it can stand at least overnight. It can remain in sumps and drains for months without harming anything, it just exhausts its food supply (the stuff you're cleaning out of 'em) in about 24 hrs
--Peggie
Raritan only markets C.P. as a bowl cleaner, but it happens to be the best sump and sink drain cleaner on the planet.
Sumps: Fill the sump at least 1/3 full with clean water...add 2-3 oz of CP when it can remain at least overnight (the bacteria need time to work)
Sink drains: close the drain thru-hull, put 1-2 oz of CP down the drain and fill the drain with clean water...again when it can stand at least overnight. It can remain in sumps and drains for months without harming anything, it just exhausts its food supply (the stuff you're cleaning out of 'em) in about 24 hrs
--Peggie
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Thanks, Peggie - So to be clear, from your perspective the KO2 is a product/system that does what it says on the tin?
Totally agree. Depending where our cruising grounds maybe for any particular trip, we will use fresh from the sink in a cup to flush the toilet. The last thing we do is give 5 or 6 squirts of a mixture of Odorlos and water around the bowl before we close the toilet lid. If we are cruising in areas where fresh water is unavailable we still squirt with the odorlos mixture but will flush with sea water. The next time fresh water is available alongside I will flush both the anchor washdown system and the raw water toilet system. Closing the thru hulls when done.
Unfortunately, no matter what the source, anything that's just added to the bowl and flushed just goes through the toilet discharge line...it does NOT re-circulate--and you wouldn't want it to!--through the intake line, pump and channel in the rim of the bowl where it's needed.
To use the sink water as the source, just spraying it into the bowl won't work...you'd need to have the intake line teed into the sink drain line below the waterline to be able to flush using sea water...the sink drain seacock has to be closed to pull water out of the sink.
And fwiw, you don't need that much CP, either. Clean fresh water will accomplish just as much if it's used correctly.
--Peggie
To use the sink water as the source, just spraying it into the bowl won't work...you'd need to have the intake line teed into the sink drain line below the waterline to be able to flush using sea water...the sink drain seacock has to be closed to pull water out of the sink.
And fwiw, you don't need that much CP, either. Clean fresh water will accomplish just as much if it's used correctly.
--Peggie
Wellll...Yes and no. K.O. is live aerobic bacteria which needs a decent supply of oxygen via the tank vent to work as advertised. Iow, the tank has to be able to "breathe." Ideally, vent lines should be short (5-7'), straight as an arrow, and not rise more than 45 degrees, 'cuz the gasses in the tank don't rise and ambient doesn't fall...45 degrees is the closest to vertical that will allow them to exchange.
"Ideal" can be impossible to achieve on most boats, but it lets you know what you're shooting for. If the vent line can't be straight, make sure that any bends in it are gentle sweeps, only one MAYBE two, no longer than 8-10'.
"Vent" thru-hulls are designed to keep sea water out of fuel and water tanks...they're totally wrong for waste holding tank vents because they restrict the tank's ability to breathe, but boat builders save a few pennies by using the same thru-hull on all tank vents. Replacing the "vent" thru-hull with an open bulkhead (aka "mushroom) fitting is the best thing you can do for a holding tank. Not only does it allow the tank to breathe, but you can prevent vent blockages by putting a hose nozzle against it to backflush the vent line on a regular basis. Anything trying to set up housekeeping in it will just be flushed into the tank.
That's the complete answer to your question "does KO work as advertised?" The short answer is: as long as it''s getting enough oxygen for the bacteria to survive.
I apologize, Peggie - I wasn't clear. The KO2 kit (Knock Out Odors) is sold by Raritan as a system to get CP into the raw water inlet just before the head's pump. It's basically a reservoir with a metering valve, a check valve, and a T-fitting. When you pump the head it sucks in a small amount of CP, runs it through the pump and into the bowl.
Clever marketing from Raritan to sell CP, but it doesn't do what's actually needed: it ignores the toilet intake line. Micro and not-so-micro sea life left to sit in it to die, decay and stink are the main source of "head" odor, especially the first flushes after the boat's been sitting.
That's what makes the head sink so valuable...Closing the sink drain seacock and flushing with plenty of clean fresh water (NEVER GRAY WATER...it'll "gum up" the pump)from the sink are really all you need to do to rinse out the entire system--intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl AND the toilet discharge line BEFORE the boat will sit. You can add a little CP to the sink water if you want to but you don't need it.
--Peggie
That's what makes the head sink so valuable...Closing the sink drain seacock and flushing with plenty of clean fresh water (NEVER GRAY WATER...it'll "gum up" the pump)from the sink are really all you need to do to rinse out the entire system--intake line, pump, channel in the rim of the bowl AND the toilet discharge line BEFORE the boat will sit. You can add a little CP to the sink water if you want to but you don't need it.
--Peggie
I assume this applies to salt water and brackish environments only?
I believe Peggie is saying that there will be untreated cooties in the water between where the CP enters the line and the seacock. One can inject the CP at any point in the line that one wants...I'm contemplating putting it in right after the seacock. I like and understand the idea behind plumbing the sink drain into the toilet raw water feed, but to do so I will need to wait until my next haul out.
But only right at the pump...the intake line would have to run downhill from the pump to get it into the entire line.
--Peggie
No intake seacock?
Fresh water flush is ideal, but unless they have a watermaker salt water flush will remain practical for those who keep boats on moorings or live on the hook. I wouldn’t implement fresh water flush without a valve to switch over when trying to conserve fresh water.
My wife and I have been fighting odors and trying to eliminate the sources for years. Humidity, moisture, or standing water aside from the more obvious black water tanks and their inherent issues.
The information about the black water tank vents is very enlightening! Enough that I just bought Peggie's book. Since I am lucky enough to have a wife who wants to live on the boat, maybe more than I do, I need to do whatever I can to stay lucky.
@Peggie Hall HeadMistress if you are still monitoring this thread... and maybe the book covers this but I'll throw it out there anyway. Our nav station is just above one black water tank. I hired someone last year or year before to help me, okay I helped them, swap out the black water hoses. The nav station area still has an odor. We just bought these "Airlock" devices that operate integrated with HVAC which is great but they only operate when we're plugged in or running a generator (which we do not run frequently at all). I do believe the Airlock device is helping! We both have noticed a distinct cleaner air quality, and our clothes are losing the "boat smell" we have come to live with when we are away from the boat long enough to notice it. We bought the min-Airlock and stuck it inside the wall area, limited affect. I believe some of the odors are at this point 'baked in' to the wood. I could be wrong, its happened at least twice today already (my wife seems skeptical and thinks that number is low) but its not even noon so I'm sticking with it. Regardless, the first question. Do you have any experience or knowledge of these Airlock devices? The next question. Does the book cover helping to rid local areas around black water tank odor, is it the tank itself, the fittings? The forward tank has odors too, but they seem to stay under the berth.
The information about the black water tank vents is very enlightening! Enough that I just bought Peggie's book. Since I am lucky enough to have a wife who wants to live on the boat, maybe more than I do, I need to do whatever I can to stay lucky.
@Peggie Hall HeadMistress if you are still monitoring this thread... and maybe the book covers this but I'll throw it out there anyway. Our nav station is just above one black water tank. I hired someone last year or year before to help me, okay I helped them, swap out the black water hoses. The nav station area still has an odor. We just bought these "Airlock" devices that operate integrated with HVAC which is great but they only operate when we're plugged in or running a generator (which we do not run frequently at all). I do believe the Airlock device is helping! We both have noticed a distinct cleaner air quality, and our clothes are losing the "boat smell" we have come to live with when we are away from the boat long enough to notice it. We bought the min-Airlock and stuck it inside the wall area, limited affect. I believe some of the odors are at this point 'baked in' to the wood. I could be wrong, its happened at least twice today already (my wife seems skeptical and thinks that number is low) but its not even noon so I'm sticking with it. Regardless, the first question. Do you have any experience or knowledge of these Airlock devices? The next question. Does the book cover helping to rid local areas around black water tank odor, is it the tank itself, the fittings? The forward tank has odors too, but they seem to stay under the berth.
I've never heard of the AirLock device.
Your old stinky hoses have left residual odor on the surface of every place they passed through. There is a product I've recommended for years that--when used as directed!!-- will eliminate it. It's called PureAyre.
PureAyre is not an air freshener...It's the only product I've found that eliminates ANY odor when used according to directions.. Not only will it get of diesel and residual odor left behind by stinking sanitation hoses, but PureAyre is also rated for use around food...which means you can even use it to get rid of the odor left in your fridge by the steaks or fish that spoiled when a natural disaster took out shore power for 3 days. Also does a great job on musty PFDs and foulies. Available from Amazon.
How to use it:
You can never eliminate any odor unless you first eliminate the source...'cuz as long as the source continues to exist, it'll continue to generate new odor. So first you have to find and fix any leak or replace the stinky hoses, then thoroughly clean the site, including every nook and cranny ...a good scrubbing with detergent and water. Mop up an excess water and let the air dry till it's at least only damp...no standing puddles. Now you're ready to eliminate the residual odor. Use PureAyre full strength...I'd use pump garden spray jug set to a fine mist. Spray every surface, nook and cranny...just a light spray. Do NOT rinse...just let it dry with hatches open so that plenty of fresh air can circulate. If the soft goods in the cabin have picked up the odor, just spraying it on the surface won't do much...you need to spray enough on carpets and rugs to penetrate to the backing...enough to penetrate cushions to the middle from both sides..not enough to make 'em drippy, just enough to get into the cushion....you'll prob'ly have to remove the covers and send 'em to be cleaned. Again, just let everything dry. If you still have any odor, you missed a spot.
A spray bottle won't go very far...plus, it's cheaper in the long run to buy it by the gallon to use as needed. Just remember to store it in a cool place.
--Peggie
Your old stinky hoses have left residual odor on the surface of every place they passed through. There is a product I've recommended for years that--when used as directed!!-- will eliminate it. It's called PureAyre.
PureAyre is not an air freshener...It's the only product I've found that eliminates ANY odor when used according to directions.. Not only will it get of diesel and residual odor left behind by stinking sanitation hoses, but PureAyre is also rated for use around food...which means you can even use it to get rid of the odor left in your fridge by the steaks or fish that spoiled when a natural disaster took out shore power for 3 days. Also does a great job on musty PFDs and foulies. Available from Amazon.
How to use it:
You can never eliminate any odor unless you first eliminate the source...'cuz as long as the source continues to exist, it'll continue to generate new odor. So first you have to find and fix any leak or replace the stinky hoses, then thoroughly clean the site, including every nook and cranny ...a good scrubbing with detergent and water. Mop up an excess water and let the air dry till it's at least only damp...no standing puddles. Now you're ready to eliminate the residual odor. Use PureAyre full strength...I'd use pump garden spray jug set to a fine mist. Spray every surface, nook and cranny...just a light spray. Do NOT rinse...just let it dry with hatches open so that plenty of fresh air can circulate. If the soft goods in the cabin have picked up the odor, just spraying it on the surface won't do much...you need to spray enough on carpets and rugs to penetrate to the backing...enough to penetrate cushions to the middle from both sides..not enough to make 'em drippy, just enough to get into the cushion....you'll prob'ly have to remove the covers and send 'em to be cleaned. Again, just let everything dry. If you still have any odor, you missed a spot.
A spray bottle won't go very far...plus, it's cheaper in the long run to buy it by the gallon to use as needed. Just remember to store it in a cool place.
--Peggie
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Thank you Peggie, that is a very useful write up, I am fighting very bad smells as well and this might be what I am missing