I have been trying to wire a CD/AM/FM marine stereo into my hunter 34. I found a marine cable that the previous owner had wired to the same switch that my VHF is on my panel. I checked the 3 wires with my multimeter and there is 12v between the black and green and 12v between the black and white and 0 between the white and green. My CD player has a black (-), and yellow (+) which is to go directly to the battery and a red which is the Accessory wire. My problem is that I keep blowing fuses when I hook it up. My DC wiring knowledge is just a little north of nothing. Any help would be appreciated.
wiring dilemma
- Thread starter dutchy
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Can you post a link to your wiring diagram? Or maybe just the brand and model? Any that I have wired the red was positive and the black is negative. Are you wiring it to a breaker behind the panel? Then the black goes to the common buss and the red(I think) to the other side of a breaker, probably the VHF breaker.
Here's a guess (but check the CD player installation manual).
I assume the black and yellow go directly to the battery (or bus in your panel) so that there is always 12V to the CD unit to keep its channel memory, etc., powered, even if the accessory switch is off. The red would likely go to the switch, allowing power to the amplifier, motors, etc. - check to see if it should be + or - (I would assume +). Does one have an in-line fuse? I would think anything tied directly should have a fuse on the pos wire.
You didn't say which of the black or white from the VHF panel switch cable is + or -. Also, do these voltages exist even if that accessory switch is turned off? If not (that is, the switch disconnects voltage from one pair), see which two are always hot (or just follow them back to your panel and see how they attach), and which ones are hot only when the switch is on, and note the polarity. I'd hook up the positive "always hot" wire to the yellow CD unit input wire, the negative "always hot" wire to the black CD input wire, and the positive (or whatever the CD manual says) "only hot when switch is on" to the red CD input wire. Just make sure you determine if the "accessory" wire into the CD is supposed to be pos or neg, and see if that one is supposed to be controlled by the switch.
I assume the black and yellow go directly to the battery (or bus in your panel) so that there is always 12V to the CD unit to keep its channel memory, etc., powered, even if the accessory switch is off. The red would likely go to the switch, allowing power to the amplifier, motors, etc. - check to see if it should be + or - (I would assume +). Does one have an in-line fuse? I would think anything tied directly should have a fuse on the pos wire.
You didn't say which of the black or white from the VHF panel switch cable is + or -. Also, do these voltages exist even if that accessory switch is turned off? If not (that is, the switch disconnects voltage from one pair), see which two are always hot (or just follow them back to your panel and see how they attach), and which ones are hot only when the switch is on, and note the polarity. I'd hook up the positive "always hot" wire to the yellow CD unit input wire, the negative "always hot" wire to the black CD input wire, and the positive (or whatever the CD manual says) "only hot when switch is on" to the red CD input wire. Just make sure you determine if the "accessory" wire into the CD is supposed to be pos or neg, and see if that one is supposed to be controlled by the switch.
Well you are using AC wiring for DC so all bets are off, however
WARNING disconnect shore power and turn off any inverter you might have. Your PO has set you up to get electrocuted by using AC wires. AC wires with AC voltages in them can kill. Not a great way to start your sailing activities
green - unswitched or switched power
white - switched or unswitched power
black - ground - goes to battery negative or negative buss with all the other black wires
You should be able to trace the green or white back to a circuit breaker (CB) the one that goes to a CB would be switched. test between it and the black to confirm that the CB does in fact turn off the power
The other (green or white) should go to an always hot terminal behind the panel (check the bilge pump as a common place to tap into "always hot" power). It may have a dedicated wire going all the way back to the batteries however. Given that the PO used AC wiring (he was cheap, lazy or both) he probably took switched power from the bilge pump.
You do not NEED (but it is nice) unswitched power to make the unit work so try gettin it working first
For your unit black is ground, yellow is unswitched power and red is switched power
WARNING disconnect shore power and turn off any inverter you might have. Your PO has set you up to get electrocuted by using AC wires. AC wires with AC voltages in them can kill. Not a great way to start your sailing activities
green - unswitched or switched power
white - switched or unswitched power
black - ground - goes to battery negative or negative buss with all the other black wires
You should be able to trace the green or white back to a circuit breaker (CB) the one that goes to a CB would be switched. test between it and the black to confirm that the CB does in fact turn off the power
The other (green or white) should go to an always hot terminal behind the panel (check the bilge pump as a common place to tap into "always hot" power). It may have a dedicated wire going all the way back to the batteries however. Given that the PO used AC wiring (he was cheap, lazy or both) he probably took switched power from the bilge pump.
You do not NEED (but it is nice) unswitched power to make the unit work so try gettin it working first
For your unit black is ground, yellow is unswitched power and red is switched power
According to the Sony CDX-M10 wiring diagram, I think I have the correct wires for (-) (+) and acc. I guess I am uncertain about the way the existing empty cable with the green/white/black wires are hooked up. I will open my panel and see how it is connected to the VHF switch. Thanks for all the input.
Dutchy...
On my H34 the AM/FM radio is wired to the second breaker down in the middle column, just below the VHF on the first breaker. I think you may want to keep them separate if possible.
Japanese made radios seem to follow the same color coding protocol. If memory serves me, Red is positive, Black is negative, and the yellow is also positive and used to maintain memory when the radio is turned off. If you have hooked black and yellow together, that could be the reason you are popping the breaker. On car radios, the blue/white is for the power antenna.
Is the green and white from incoming wiring to the radio? If so, it sounds like Bill Roosa is right in that a PO used household AC wire for DC power. That's a NO-NO on a boat!
On my H34 the AM/FM radio is wired to the second breaker down in the middle column, just below the VHF on the first breaker. I think you may want to keep them separate if possible.
Japanese made radios seem to follow the same color coding protocol. If memory serves me, Red is positive, Black is negative, and the yellow is also positive and used to maintain memory when the radio is turned off. If you have hooked black and yellow together, that could be the reason you are popping the breaker. On car radios, the blue/white is for the power antenna.
Is the green and white from incoming wiring to the radio? If so, it sounds like Bill Roosa is right in that a PO used household AC wire for DC power. That's a NO-NO on a boat!
Dutchy,
There really is no such thing as AC wire and DC wire. The color of jacket means nothing unless you understand the conventions or knowledge of the person doing the wiring. Plastic is plastic and I assure you it is no different, except for it's voltage rating and I have never seen wire rated less than 12 volts, although not all wire is rated for 120 volts. Yes, marine wire should be tinned, but that has noting to do with AC or DC. If the wire is solid copper, you should not use it. Be sure it is stranded and preferably Marine grade. the rating letters on the jacket will tell you what it is. However, don't assume it is residential wiring just because of the colors chosen.
Based upon your write-up, I would assume that your black is negative and both the Green and White are positive. To confirm this, put the meter between each wire and a known ground, not one of the other wires in the bundle. Each with 12 volts is positive. For the wire(s) that show no voltage, switch your meter to ohms and check the resistance between that wire and the known ground. If it is 0 or .1/.2, that wire is your ground. Next, you need to understand if one of those positive wires is constant hot. place your meter in volt mode and place it between each positive wire and ground (do the test separately for each wire). Turn the swithces (including master) on and off and observe the behavior. This will tell you where the wiring is run to. I am guessing the p/o has one positive wire tied to the radio switch and the other tied to the Master switch or directly to the battery or battery switch.
Good luck,
Larry
There really is no such thing as AC wire and DC wire. The color of jacket means nothing unless you understand the conventions or knowledge of the person doing the wiring. Plastic is plastic and I assure you it is no different, except for it's voltage rating and I have never seen wire rated less than 12 volts, although not all wire is rated for 120 volts. Yes, marine wire should be tinned, but that has noting to do with AC or DC. If the wire is solid copper, you should not use it. Be sure it is stranded and preferably Marine grade. the rating letters on the jacket will tell you what it is. However, don't assume it is residential wiring just because of the colors chosen.
Based upon your write-up, I would assume that your black is negative and both the Green and White are positive. To confirm this, put the meter between each wire and a known ground, not one of the other wires in the bundle. Each with 12 volts is positive. For the wire(s) that show no voltage, switch your meter to ohms and check the resistance between that wire and the known ground. If it is 0 or .1/.2, that wire is your ground. Next, you need to understand if one of those positive wires is constant hot. place your meter in volt mode and place it between each positive wire and ground (do the test separately for each wire). Turn the swithces (including master) on and off and observe the behavior. This will tell you where the wiring is run to. I am guessing the p/o has one positive wire tied to the radio switch and the other tied to the Master switch or directly to the battery or battery switch.
Good luck,
Larry
Bill is saying that someone used AC color-coded wire for something. And Dutchy is trying to use that as if it is wired to some DC source. Maybe it is. He thinks it is based on his meter readings. What if it is wired to the AC side?! Scrap that wire. Connect the radio wires directly to the panel. Red to a breaker and black to common. Get it working then worry about the ACC yellow wire.
I won't push this any further. However, if Dutchy is getting a 12 volt reading on wires connected to the AC side, he has some serious problems and you should advise him appropriately.
Larry
It is true that the color of the jacket has nothing to do with how a wire will work equally well on AC or DC. The problem is that when DIY's wire boats with colors that are not to industry standards it creates dangerous potentials for future owners. A green wire carrying current is usually not a good sign especially on a vessel that may be bonded.
The industry accepted colors for general marine wiring are as follows:
DC Colors
Red = Positive
Black or Yellow = Negative (Yellow is now preferred color for DC negative)
Green or Green W/Yellow Stripe (AC & DC) = Earth Potential / Bonding - This bonding wire is optional except when wiring inverters or chargers.
AC Colors
Black = AC Hot (ungrounded conductor) - additional colors brown, black w/red, blue or orange stripe and red
White = AC Grounded Neutral - additional color light blue
Green or Green W/Yellow Stripe = AC Grounding (AC & DC)
To make it easier marine wire is often sold as:
DC Duplex with either red/black or red/yellow.
AC Triplex with black, white & green
Of course when you throw a DC stereo into the mix with a yellow power wire the wire should ideally be marked with red tape or red heat shrink at the connector end to identify it as a positive DC conductor. This is especially important on a vessel using yellow as DC negative.
Maine-Sail,
I see your point. I guess I have restored enough things in my day that I trust nothing and test everything and therefore don't have great concern over things like this. You wouldn't believe the improperly repaired items that I found on the H34 I bought this spring. And they were supposedly done by paid professionals (using the term somewhat loosely).
I see your point. I guess I have restored enough things in my day that I trust nothing and test everything and therefore don't have great concern over things like this. You wouldn't believe the improperly repaired items that I found on the H34 I bought this spring. And they were supposedly done by paid professionals (using the term somewhat loosely).
Larry...
You're finding out how important it is to understand your boat, what the correct thing should be, and doing the work yourself for piece of mind.
Having been a dealer in the past, I can tell you that things come from the factory wired/done wrong (must be a Monday or Friday boat!). Unknowledgeable PO's compound the problem.
I've encountered some truely worrisome things on my H34 done by supposed "paid professionals" as well, like the heat pump being wired into the AC panel side with household Romex and exposed twist-on connectors (not even a junction box!).
The fun continues...
You're finding out how important it is to understand your boat, what the correct thing should be, and doing the work yourself for piece of mind.
Having been a dealer in the past, I can tell you that things come from the factory wired/done wrong (must be a Monday or Friday boat!). Unknowledgeable PO's compound the problem.
I've encountered some truely worrisome things on my H34 done by supposed "paid professionals" as well, like the heat pump being wired into the AC panel side with household Romex and exposed twist-on connectors (not even a junction box!).
The fun continues...
Claude...
Made some nice beer money doing custom car stereo and speaker installations in and after college. The universiality of Japanese radio cable color coding made doing them a whole lot easier going from one mfgr to another.
Made some nice beer money doing custom car stereo and speaker installations in and after college. The universiality of Japanese radio cable color coding made doing them a whole lot easier going from one mfgr to another.
Just to reiterate
When you see an AC romex triple wire loom (white, black, green/bare wrapped in white sheeth) being used for what appears to be a DC circuit it is wise and prudent to disconnect from shore power and physically eyeball that any inverter is OFF.
And yes it happens alot.
When you see an AC romex triple wire loom (white, black, green/bare wrapped in white sheeth) being used for what appears to be a DC circuit it is wise and prudent to disconnect from shore power and physically eyeball that any inverter is OFF.
And yes it happens alot.
I really appreciate all your inputs. The wire connected to my VHF switch is on the DC side of my panel and it is a marine grade wire. Once again thanks.
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