Who would like to read my survey report?!?

[ScubaGuy2]

We are under contract on an '84. Today, most of the survey was completed. I'm disappointed that he was unable to inspect the mast/rigging today, but he will go back when he can complete that. It's always difficult reading a report like this, when you pay someone to find every flaw in something you want to purchase. However, in the past, it's saved me from making several huge mistakes. We were unable to be there for the survey and have not seen the boat in person.

I have attached the report; if you would like to read it and give me any thoughts or concerns or red flags you see, that would be incredibly beneficial. I haven't spoken to the surveyor yet, so if you have questions you think I should ask, that would be very very helpful for me. I understand a 30+ year old boat is going to need things, just trying to prevent getting in over our heads. I deleted any personal info on the report. For some reason, there weren't any photos attached, so I'm waiting to see those.

Thank You!
Douglas

P.S. We have never owned any sailboat ever!!!

This is my second thread about the same boat. A few weeks ago, I inquired about the keel. In general, all the responses were very positive. That thread is here: https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/condition-of-swing-keel.190511/

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

My uneducated reading is that the survey is pretty sparce with details and it's questionable if the surveyor even sounded the rudder, keel or hull, rigging, tabbing or any other structural member(s).

If you haven't seen the boat, I'd suggest you do so before buying based on that survey. And more important, bring someone with you whom you trust and who 'knows boats'

 

[Leeward Rail]

"I had elevated moisture readings along both port and starboard decks at the forward end of the cabin. There was also high readings from the step for the mast and down the cabin top to the edge. I did not see any stress lines, weep, softness or other indications the encapsulated wood is getting bad. I would keep these areas under seasonal observation and if any of the above signs become apparent, repairs should be considered"

Hard to determine what "forward end of cabin" means. If the boat has lifelines, maybe the stanchion/post mounting hardware is leaking ?

The mast step needs to be solid, so the "step for the mast" and "down the cabin top to the edge" is worrying.
Yet, he/she states that no softness was noted. So it could simply be that you need to rebed/seal all the deck fittings so that no more moisture gets in.

(Soft spots in the deck would mean rotted encapsulated wood core which could mean the need to cut into the deck, to fix it. For many people, that means "getting in over their heads")

"The bow light mount on the front rail has had the fixture break off, it hangs by wires"
This is common from my understanding. Likely that the stainless bracket has broken at the weld. Our boat had the same issue. Easy to have someone weld the bracket again.

"1. Tires are checking and before any serious travel is done, replacement should be considered.
2. Surge brake hose and connections by reservoir are badly checked and connections showing corrosion . No leaks observed, but again I would consider service before any long trips.
3. No bow safety chain present"

ALL of these trailer issues should be dealt with asap, along with inspecting and repacking the wheel bearings.
You don't want any failures when towing the boat. That can be a very dangerous thing.
If you are towing it home, I'd do it before you drive too far. In our case I got permission to service the trailer in the seller's driveway, before I towed it away.

"Main and Genoa sails were examined but not hoisted. Both look aged and are missing a small amount of stitching up toward the head."

Depending on how stretched out they are, you may want new sails soon. (You can't adequately trim/adjust an old stretched out sail).
Our boat had some damaged stitching on the genoa, but the sail was ok, so we just had it inspected and repaired at a local sail loft. (a sail loft would best be able to inspect the condition of the sails)

It says the boat has 2 marine batteries and the "Electrical Wiring/Routing/Type/Hangers/Connections" are proper ?
Hmmm.. If so... That's better than most C22's. They originally came with 1 battery, and crap wiring.

Again, elevated moisture readings can be a sign of big problem, but it states "I did not see any stress lines, weep, softness or other indications the encapsulated wood is getting bad."
That may likely mean you simply need to rebed/seal all the deck fittings. It's a common maintenance task, and can even be done in such a way to prevent moisture from entering the wood core in the future.

Looks like a typical survey for a 30 year old C22 IMO.

Your mileage may vary... i'm not a professional so my opinion is worth little..... etc. etc.

The good thing about a C22 is that it's a great tool for not only learning sailing in a reasonable sized boat, but it allows you to learn about boat maintenance/repair, while still being manageable in most cases.

 

[rpludwig]

reads like he surveyed our boat!....his price/value estimate is a bit high imo, expect to replace sails sooner rather than later, running & standing rigging too. Like most of us, you'll likely spend 2-3k quickly in fixes, replacement parts and upgrades, so I'd factor that in, plus trailer tires, bearings, etc., before moving it. No mention of chainplate or bulkhead issues so that's good and your keel looks very good.

Assume you've had thorough conversation with PO, that can give you a lot of info on the boat's history and a comfort level (or not). I'd ask if there is a maintenance log/receipts of previous work done of any sort.

Pictures would really help to evaluate.

 

[Will Gilmore]

My uneducated reading is that the survey is pretty sparce with details and it's questionable if the surveyor even sounded the rudder, keel or hull, rigging, tabbing or any other structural member(s).

It would be nice to see a little explanation about how the surveyor came to the conclusions and perhaps something a little more committed than statements like, 'It appears'.
However, if the surveyor has any experience with sailboats, He should be able to spot serious deficiencies and point them out, he didn't, so that is positive. It does sound like there is old equipment/rigging that needs attention right away. Don't let the rudder lift line, the head and fuel tie-downs go any further without fixing. They indicate a general state of upkeep over time, even when they may not be significant issues in and of themselves.

Overall, I wouldn't shy away from this boat based upon the survey. It is pretty positive. The valuation also seems premature, not having inspected the standing and running rigging.

\-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[rpludwig]

Douglas...just a sidebar on your survey...regarding the motor...

Doubt very much the surveyor tested the motor...that said, one of my very worst prime stupids on our boat was to take our supposedly running (but not tested) vintage 80's Merc 4.5hp outboard which came with the boat to a recommended Merc dealer. Told him to chk it out, make sure it runs and is dependable, but don't put stupid money into it.

Got the call, "hey, your motor runs great, just needed blah, blah, blah, blah, blah". Went to pick it up, $550 (but it does run fine)! Bottom line, budget a Tohatsu 6hp Sailpro going forward, perhaps now or later depending....just a heads up on that item, yours may be just fine.

Ron

 

[JRT]

I like the survey details, looks like a pretty standard form approach to me. He did outline his process and procedure and rating. It is after all just a visual / hopefully experienced inspection. First thing to address is the trailer before you move it. To me on a boat this size, price and condition I'd count on the sails lasting you your first season, plan to get new ones during the winter when the loft's run specials. Also old motor suck unless you are into fixing them yourself. So I support also planning to replace the motor with a Tohatsu 6hp Sailpro.

 

[ScubaGuy2]

Thanks everyone for your posts. All great responses. I will definitely be getting more info from the surveyor and will go over each item with him.

The trailer was always just an after thought to me, now I'm more concerned about the condition of the trailer than the boat. I will have about 200 miles to get her where we will keep her. I'm thinking 2 new tires and probably repack the wheel bearings before we leave. Check to be sure the brakes are working properly.

A Tohatsu Sailpro is likely in my future.

As far as sails go.... how long should they last? Starting with new sails, if you could sail a couple of days a week and every Saturday for the 3 - 4 month season, how many years would you expect before major repairs or replacing the sails? Based on a semi serious sailor. Or is that a kind of question?

 

[rpludwig]

Wise thinking on the trailer. I had a trailer guy look ours over for opinion on safety, bought 2 new tires + a spare, repacked bearings, rewired the lights and hauled it 800 miles no sweat. Strap the boat down good, take the motor off and keep your speed down, you'll be fine, unless the trailer is trash.

Sails - ours are original, baggy main and jib but in good condition otherwise, genoa 150 never used, new in the bag. Can we trim it to the max properly, no, but they move us along at hull speed 6-7 kts when the wind is right just fine for our weekenders and longer 3-4 day cruises. I have no immediate plans to replace, we're not racers, nor are we in a hurry!

How long should they last?...well, they're 33 yrs old and still useful, but certainly not optimal. Likewise, at my age, I'm still useful, but far from optimal!

 

[JRT]

I'd make the trailer sound and go from there as you figure it out during the season. You probably need to make sure you have a dry leak free boat since it sounds like the deck is solid and you really want to keep it that way.