Self Tacking System

[Jackdaw]

Almost all of this info is freely available on the web. To actually post a topic here is to show you are inept at research or lazy.

I agree. The irony of this statement is that someday someone will google 'self tacking 155 genoa' and get Will's comment that he thinks its possible.

Of course you can find ANYTHING on the internet. The trick is to know what's accurate, and what's bullshit. These forums exist as a COMMUNITY, not just one-and-done internet search. Peoples paychecks depend on it. Part of the value of the community is that for better or worse they self-police to keep the information accurate. Hang around. You'll see.

 

[Meriachee]

Almost all of this info is freely available on the web. To actually post a topic here is to show you are inept at research or lazy.

Then why bother coming here if it's all been done and everybody is so inept or lazy?

 

[BobbyFunn]

Then why bother coming here if it's all been done and everybody is so inept or lazy?

You ask an excellent question that SBO should ask.

I agree that there are some posters here that should sit out most of the posts if they have no experience with the subject or offer up hollow suggestions. I both lol'd at kings comment, and felt bad for Will.

If this forum was a technical experts only site it would be a one stop shop with very little reason to click on recent posts to see whats going on. Youd look for a couple days for your specific issue then never come here again. There would be a couple good experts worth any price and a couple experts that give sketchy half ass advice or have no skills for teaching. They would piss off the one off poster and the site is dead.

Add crowd sourcing and now you mix awesome tips, bizarre tips, moronic tips, and white noise.

But now that there are more voices, it becomes interesting to hear them. Now you have a following.

I keep coming back hoping Will shows us more wood cuttings, jackdaw uploads sailing videos, or briand throws us another puzzle. I cant get enough of judy's tri.

Kings gambit is complaing about white noise but im not seeing how his labor day sails and opinions on the addrift movie are all that technical or solve any problem.

Why come back? Becuase any thing is better than work or headines when we cant be sailing.

 

[Phil Herring]

We encourage anyone and everyone to politely correct erroneous information. However, attacking other posters is not permitted here. If you feel the need to smack people around because they are not "qualified" to post, try Sailing Anarchy. This is a discussion site, some people have more experience than others and that's fine.

If you're in a tavern talking sailing and someone chimes in with a statement you identify as incorrect, do you tell them to shut up? Then don't do it here either.

 

[Meriachee]

Why come back? Becuase any thing is better than work or headines when we cant be sailing.

And that is why the statements that border on moronic, or suggest another beer need to be tolerated at face value. If I would read through a raft of my posts, I would suspect that this guy is a slobbering drunk, and while that's happened on occasion, it couldn't be further from the truth. A lot of the topics here are repetitive, there are a lot of 'one hit wonders' who put forth a question, get 27 answers and are never seen again and a lot of topics that are repetitive, never mind the repetitive questions.
Enjoy it, the point is spot on, at it's worst, it's better than another pissed customer.

 

[Meriachee]

Sailing Anarchy

Sailing Anarchy. Phil, with all due respect, do you have ANY IDEA how hard it is for those of us from a foreign country to remove the first word and remain quiet? (and that's as close to a no no topic I'm probably going to get today)

 

[Johnb]

FWIW I just used the forum "Cherubini Hunters" to get information that was invaluable to me. Having access to folks who have dealt with the same issues as you are facing, or have useful information, is great. There is no way general research on the internet could have matched the help I got.

 

[shemandr]

Here here Phil! I don't know why this thread went this way but I don't think it's positive or necessary. If we all have to pass a litmus test of our competency there wouldn't be very many posters. I don't really mind if my posts are considered ill informed or whatever. When I think I have something to contribute I do. Sometimes it's to extend a discussion, sometimes it's to keep a topic in the recent posts, sometimes it's just to see if my post stands up to scrutiny. Whatever the reason I appreciate the discussion back and forth. And I don't really care if I end up being wrong - because I learn something along the way. There are so many on this forum who I've learned from in many areas of life and I appreciate those experiences.

 

[Kings Gambit]

We encourage anyone and everyone to politely correct erroneous information. However, attacking other posters is not permitted here. If you feel the need to smack people around because they are not "qualified" to post, try Sailing Anarchy. This is a discussion site, some people have more experience than others and that's fine.

If you're in a tavern talking sailing and someone chimes in with a statement you identify as incorrect, do you tell them to shut up? Then don't do it here either.

Fine--Phil, you're the boss and I respect that. Delete more of my posts if you see it necessary for civility, etc., as I'm sure you will. But I have to say we're not talking one or few off-hand comments. If we were, then, yeah, no problema. But it's been a veritable campaign of .... [fill it in]; more than 2000 posts in barely over 6 mo--that's an average of 10-11 each day, etc. In my opinion [there's that word again], bordering on abuse of the forum and its intent.

 

[BobbyFunn]

a club-foot jib boom or Hoyt boom would NOT be appropriate for a foredeck littered with landlubbers.

This cant be underestimated. On a remote controlled sailboat there are no crew to bash kneecaps with. You can duck a mainsail boom, but where are you going to go when the jib tacks and that boom sweeps the deck?

If you have crew or casual guests wanting to be close to the bow you wont want that jib boom. If you almost never have crew it might be a good deal.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Kings Gambit is complaining about white noise but im not seeing how his labor day sails and opinions on the a drift movie are all that technical or solve any problem.

You miss the point-- I was there; I reported on what I did, and what I saw. I did not attempt to critique a movie I had not seen, etc. Or detail the merits of an anchorage I never visited, etc., or had even seen or knew of. One might actually learn something real from reading my posts. I certainly did not attempt advice on a system (self-tacking) about which I knew not even it's most basic features, etc., at the start of the thread. That's what I'm talking about.

 

[SEMPERAVANTI41]

My Hunter 50 came from the factory with a self tacking jib. Greatest invention since sliced bread!!! I can basically single hand the boat with ease. While out sailing a week ago in strong winds, the admiral and I were discussing how amazing it is that the two of us can easily handle the boat. I am not crossing the ocean or attempting to win a race, but for my use I would never buy another boat without it.

 

[jon hansen]

i have been sailing aeolus for 44 years. it has a club footed jib. i absolutely love it. on my boat it is used only to drive up wind. gorgeon bay exploring the maze of islands or driving up wind in a channel. it is not a deck sweeper. the crew can sit on deck for tacks. my racing jibs are deck sweepers. when racing the deck crew of course assists the big sails with every tack. i have external halyards and winches on the mast, not so clean for racing tacks. for cruising upwind it is great. much less need for the iron jib. i can and do sail to windward. i am not part of the motoring crowd. i just love sailing a sailboat.

on aeolus i have no vang for the jib boom. this sail twists out on a reach. on a run it is a problem unless you add a preventer.

the sail is small, 80% ish. which really leaves the slot between the main open in a beat, improving the mains efficiency.

the club footed jib is a hold over from when sailing boats worked for a living. on aeolus it takes about 10 minutes to rig it or de-rig it. i do sail with crew. not the loner type.

 

[JimInPB]

...
Why come back? Becuase any thing is better than work or headines when we cant be sailing.

Well, I have to agree that the headlines we have to select from these days are pretty dreadful.
That aside, where else but here would you find the kind of unique responses that come from people like Crazy Dave? This place really is a treasure trove of certain types of information that are not easily found elsewhere.

 

[JimInPB]

Actually it can't. You have to adjust sheets accounting for the clew being aft the mast on each tack. If you're adjusting sheets, you don't self-tacking system.

If you were in the mood to place a gentleman's wager on the impossibility of building a system that would auto tack a genny, it might just tempt me to design one.

 

[jon hansen]

i'll bet $ 0.05. that's my standard wager

 

[JimInPB]

Too rich for my blood. I just do gentleman's wagers.

Just adding my $0.02 to a conversation is sometimes seen as being too much by some people.

 

[Joe]

On either of these systems, how does one control the travel of the car on the track?

The wind controls when the car moves from side to side... or from jib lead to jib lead.... which is the whole point of a self tacking jib/staysail.

Or does the car simply slide out to the end of the track?

Yes

Would bringing the sheet in also pull the car up?

No.... there is only one sheet, per se. It is trimmed and cleated... the sail tacks without the sheet having to be un cleated.

I imagine that the ability to control the travel of the car would have advantages on a foresail that are similar to the advantages of a controllable mainsail traveler.

Not really. Angle of attack for a headsail is controlled by the sheet. What you're thinking of is "sheeting angle" which can be altered by a barber hauler or a second track. With the ST system you could change that by using pin stops on the track but having some kind of traveler rig would add to the clutter and be basically unnecessary. In reality, the lead position normally remains fixed for the smaller sail, just like it is in a traditional set up.
If you notice in the second system, the "outhaul" control would provide a similar adjustment to moving the jib car forward or back.... to adjust leech tension.

 

[Jackdaw]

If you were in the mood to place a gentleman's wager on the impossibility of building a system that would auto tack a genny, it might just tempt me to design one.

;^)

OK You're on. But from my experience tacking a 150% genoa well is an art form involving at least 3 people, timing the release of the sheet, rate of turn, how much time spend head to wind, running the clew around, and sheeting in.

You figure that out and I'm impressed. But I bet not.

 

[Gunni]

But from my experience tacking a 150% genoa well is an art form involving at least 3 people,

It can’t be an automated process, but it can be easy. I often do it by myself: Grab the lazy sheet, trip the auto-pilot tack feature, pull the working sheet off the self-tailer and wait for the sail to begin backing, release the working sheet, let the sail blow across, one wrap on the new working winch and begin bringing in the sheet, add some wraps on the winch, pull the sheet into the self-tailer and trim. Less than 30 seconds. Nobody can be anywhere in front of the mast while this is going on.