Replaced Joker Valve

JerryA

.
Oct 17, 2004
549
Tanzer 29 Jeanneau Design Sandusky Bay, Lake Erie
Replaced my first Joker valve this weekend. Yucky job, but gloves and an old towel helped. Now I don't have backflow anymore into the bowl the next morning. I used a Jabsco valve in my Raritan PHII. A couple weeks ago I found my tank vent plugged too. Seemed like a good time to replace the vent line with the proper line. Improved the odors.

JerryA
 
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Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
A couple weeks ago I found my tank vent plugged too. Seemed like a good time to replace the vent line with the proper line. Improved the odors.
Might be a good time to take it on step further: replace the vent thru-hull with an open "bulkhead" or "mushroom" thru-hull. That'll not only create a lot better air exchange through the vent, but also provide you with the means of preventing future vent blockages by sticking a hose nozzle up against it and back flushing the vent line every time you wash the boat and/or pump out.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
+1 to Peggy. I converted to a 1.25 inch mushroom thru-hull. When I know the pumpout boat is coming, I stick the hose into the vent thru-hull until I see the sludge coming up to the deck fitting. I, too, am about to replace the joker, but I've been using the Raritan in my Jabsco. Maybe someone has the R number? They used to be red, but now they are all made black.
 
Last edited:
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
I need to replace mine as well. We're getting the back-fill symptom too. How often do they need to be replaced?
The vent is on my list of off-season projects.
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
I think you kind of answered your own question, just before you asked it.
So the question should have been, how soon before I will see the symptom reappear?
Is the a typical life expectancy/ It's not worth ordering 2 is there?
 
Feb 20, 2011
7,993
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
So the question should have been, how soon before I will see the symptom reappear?
Is the a typical life expectancy/ It's not worth ordering 2 is there?
Depends. Frequency of use, how long it takes to get an order into your hands. Sure, you might as well order two. I have six aboard my IP.
The PO was/is kind of OCD, not necessarily a bad thing. ;)

Caveat: I'm a real newbie when it comes to marine head problems, despite spending 3-4 hours on my knees in front of my Raritan last week. Peggie's forum will likely have more definitive answers using the search function.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
YMMV, but you might get by for the weekend(like I just did) by making several pumps of air to push the hose contents into the tank. Then (if you have it) turn the handle to the lock position.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
Most people--apparently including y'all--don't have a clue what a joker valve's function really is...you think that the only thing the joker valve does is acts as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's not a joker valve's most important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet.

Here’s how the discharge half of the pump works: On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston...less vacuum is generated when you pump it. And as it becomes more worn, less and less vacuum is created, till finally the bowl contents simply move up and down a bit, but don't go anywhere.

You prob'ly won't notice the loss of efficiency at first because it's so gradual...same as we don't see that we've gotten a little older than we were yesterday when we look in the mirror each morning. But I guarantee you that if it's been two years or longer since you replaced the joker valve, you need to pump the toilet at least 50% more times to move the bowl contents to the tank or all the way out the thru-hull....IF they're getting there at all any more. Sometimes the flapper valve needs to be replaced too, which is one of the reasons why toilets should also be rebuilt at least every 5-6 years as PREVENTIVE maintenance.

The above is an excerpt from my latest book. If you have it, you might consider reading it! If you don't have it, get it (see link in my signature)...you'll find all kinds of useful sanitation system info in it, including the best way prevent runback while also increasing the number of flushes your tank can hold by up to 50% by reducing the amount of flush water going into it. And also why increasing air exchange via the tank vent is the key to eliminating odor out the vent when you flush.
 
Feb 20, 2011
7,993
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Gotta love the internet. Just post a wrong answer, and someone will come along with the right one toot sweet!
 
Nov 16, 2012
1,045
Catalina 310, 2000, #31 31 Santa Cruz
Might be a good time to take it on step further: replace the vent thru-hull with an open "bulkhead" or "mushroom" thru-hull. That'll not only create a lot better air exchange through the vent, but also provide you with the means of preventing future vent blockages by sticking a hose nozzle up against it and back flushing the vent line every time you wash the boat and/or pump out.
Peggy, I installed the bulkhead vent, but if the pump out fitting is capped, there's nowhere for the water to go; it pressurizes the tank some and then "blows" back out the vent when you remove the hose. Or am I doing something wrong? (I can see it working if you're actively pumping out.) Do I need to leave enough room at the vent fitting for air to get out?
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
Do I need to leave enough room at the vent fitting for air to get out?
Yes...or maybe not...
I installed the bulkhead vent, but if the pump out fitting is capped, there's nowhere for the water to go; it pressurizes the tank some and then "blows" back out the vent when you remove the hose. Or am I doing something wrong? (I can see it working if you're actively pumping out.)
First time anyone has ever told me that...but after re-reading your post a couple of times and giving it a little thought...so what if it's creating back pressure? Backflushing the vent line isn't intended to be a way to rinse out the tank. The whole purpose of back flushing the vent line is to flush out anything that may have spilled into it when you're heeled or tried to set up housekeeping in it. From what you're saying it sounds to me like it's doing a dandy job of it!

Otoh, maybe you're pressing the hose nozzle against the thru-hull a lot tighter than you need to.....
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,414
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
I would suggest using a Raritan PHII joker valve in the Jabsco manual head. It lasts ~ 2x as long as the Jabsco valve, based on my experience and that of several live aboards. They are dimensionally interchangeable. A Jabsco valve will fit in a PHII, but it won't last as long as the Raritan part.

Peggy is dead right about the preventative nature of maintenance. Repairing/rebuilding a functioning, clean head is not unpleasant (flush lots of clean water first, followed by a brief vinegar soak, and then more water), but a broken or jammed head is a trial. Procrastination is punished.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
In my post #4 I didn't exactly say when back-flushing, you have to have the cap off to see the water rising up the hose. Stop the vent hose before gook floods out the deck fitting. Or, maybe better yet, do not flush the vent until the tank is first emptied. More vent water, then pump again. Sure, some water can run back out the vent, but it's like bilge pumps that some of the water in the hose runs back into the bilge. If you stick the hose in the mushroom tightly when pumping, you are putting a cork in it and with the pump sucking out, then you are making a vacuum in the tank- maybe damage it.
 
Dec 2, 1997
8,729
- - LIttle Rock
If you stick the hose in the mushroom tightly when pumping, you are putting a cork in it and with the pump sucking out, then you are making a vacuum in the tank- maybe damage it.
Only if you leave it there the whole time you're pumping out...But why would you back flush the vent line DURING pumpout??

Y'all are making a huge production out of the simplest bit of preventive maintenance possible...the first time anyone has done so since I started recommending it a couple of decades ago! You're not putting gallons of water into the tank--at least you shouldn't be...just a healthy blast of water down the vent line every time you wash the boat and/or when you pump out--before, not during! If some runs back out the vent, so what? It shouldn't unless there's some buildup or a spider nest in the vent line (which is the reason you do this)...but if it does, you have a hose in your hand, use it to hose it off!
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
If some runs back out the vent, so what? ...!
Not making a huge production, just forwarding the way that I have found to keep the system healthy- and without additional cleansing aids, thank you. The "so what" is if it runs back out, you're not sure that it's getting though. If done while using the pumping hose, you can see the clear water coming up- if there's a clear section of pipe in the pump hose.
 
Nov 16, 2012
1,045
Catalina 310, 2000, #31 31 Santa Cruz
Yes...or maybe not...


First time anyone has ever told me that...but after re-reading your post a couple of times and giving it a little thought...so what if it's creating back pressure? Backflushing the vent line isn't intended to be a way to rinse out the tank. The whole purpose of back flushing the vent line is to flush out anything that may have spilled into it when you're heeled or tried to set up housekeeping in it. From what you're saying it sounds to me like it's doing a dandy job of it!

Otoh, maybe you're pressing the hose nozzle against the thru-hull a lot tighter than you need to.....
Makes sense. Before I installed the larger vent we would pump out, add several gallons of with water, pump out, rinse and repeat... I was thinking the vent would do that, but I see what you're saying. As an analytical chemist I do tend to overthink most things!!