Proper LS Outboard for a 27' 1981 Catalina?

[JRGresham]

All,

I just bought a beautiful 1981 27 footer with the open rear transom. The OLD 8 HP outboard that came with it is ergonomically VERY difficult. When the prop is in the water, it is almost impossible to reach down into the transom and through the cut out to disengage the pin and lift the shaft out of the water (Evinrude).

Is there a new 4 stroke motor that has a long shaft (9.9 HP) electric start that is easy to raise and lower from my boats current configuration? (There has to be a better modern configuration.) Or should I consider buying an external tramson mount and new motor.

Motors are expensive, and some sage advice here to a newbie would be much appreciated.

 

[Jon_E]

All,
... When the prop is in the water, it is almost impossible to reach down into the transom and through the cut out to disengage the pin and lift the shaft out of the water (Evinrude)....

...Is there a new 4 stroke motor that has a long shaft (9.9 HP) electric start that is easy to raise and lower from my boats current configuration? (There has to be a better modern configuration.) Or should I consider buying an external tramson mount and new motor....

Hi Gresham,

I have a Catalina-27 with a cut-out transom for the motor as well. I have tried three different engines on my boat: (a) a short shaft 6 hp Merc that was on her at purchase, (b) a long shaft 15 hp Evinrude, and (c) a long shaft 8 hp Yamaha.

First, does your current engine run well? If so, I would recommend keeping your current engine. The cut-out transom was designed to fit 2-stroke outboards with smaller engine cowlings than the current 4-stroke engines. To solve the problem of lifting the shaft out of the water, simple fashion a lanyard around the engine cowling. This is what I did for my Evinrude (see photo). No longer will you have to reach back and risk crushing your knuckles on the cut-out to retract the engine. It is very simple to use. You still have reach down to flip the toggle, but once you do that the engine can be retracted with one hand while having the other on the tiller and you facing forward. Easy.

I no longer have this engine in this photo but have since replaced it with a newer 4 stroke electric start. That is a whole other story, but I still uses the the cut-out, not an external outboard mount. An outboard mount on the transom brings a whole host of other challenges with these boats. My new engine has a similar lanyard config as this photo.

 

[JRGresham]

Thanks

Jon_E

Thanks for your idea and photo. I think I will try your lnyard fix before I buy a new 4 stroke. My current old 2 stroke still starts easily......

Simple and cheap fixes are worth trying first.

John

 

[Jon_E]

Cool! Let me know how it works out, John. The cut-out-with-lanyard option is much, much easier to retract than an external engine mount.

By the way, I probably don't have to tell you to make sure the lanyard isn't afoul of the fuel line and adapter when you yank on it.

- Jon

 

[JRGresham]

Jon

I have another question. I have a 2006 Tohatsu 2 stroke 8hp with the short shaft (20 inches?). That engine is newer than my 1996 long shaft Evinrude 8hp. The Tohatsu is much lighter than the older Evinrude and easier to raise the prop out of the water due to design differences between the two engines.

My question to you is: Did you find your shorter shaft 6 hp motor to be useable on your Catalina 27? If you think that's agood option, All I'd have to do would be to change the oil and clean the innards.

 

[Jon_E]

The prop on my short shaft would occasionally leave the water in a good swell. It didn't happen often though and wasn't a big reason for swapping it out. I ditched it because it had low compression, was difficult to start, and was getting old.

I replaced it with a 15 HP 2-stroke Evinrude (the one in the photo above). It had good compression but used a lot of gas. At lower RPMs it would foul plugs. That in turn made it even less fuel efficient. Plus it didn't have the right kind of propeller for a sailboat of this size. I sold it for $200 less than I paid... not bad.

My current outboard is a 8 hp Yamaha 4 stroke high-thrust. The propeller and gear ratio make it perfect for a boat of this size (Catalina-27). It uses less gas than any of the previous outboards, pollutes FAR less than 2 stroke engines, is very quiet, the high-thrust propeller moves the boat second it is placed in gear, has an electric start, and no more mixing oil into the gas. It is so new it is still under manufacturers warranty. Downside? It is my heaviest engine yet, the transom cut-out had to be modified to get the engine to fit, and still it is so wide the engine can't be turned to steer (good-bye thrust vectoring). The upsides outweigh the downsides, though. This is my favorite engine so far.

So to answer your question, if you already have that other engine in hand, why not mount it and try it? You have nothing to lose. If it doesn't work, you can always re-mount the Evinrude.

 

[Faris]

I have the same transom, and I just sprung for a brand new Yamaha 9.9 with power tilt and remote control. I can't say that I recommend buying a brand new engine as the best way to get value, but having power tilt is VERY nice with this transom. But, nothing is perfect. Even though I can lift the motor from cockpit with the touch of a button, there is a little peg that you really should push in to take the weight off the hydraulics. So, I still have to perform acrobatics.

 

[JRGresham]

Faris, Still it sounds like a good investment.....

 

[Faris]

Yeah, I think so. The old motor had to be replaced anyway, and we needed to do it in a hurry - so no time to look around for the right used motor. The need to get a motor and install it the same weekend was one of the main factors in the decision.

The irony is that, tomorrow, three weeks after buying the motor, the part I needed to complete the installation comes in and the boat goes for haul out on the same day. So, it will have been a month before I can take her out.

 

[ScottGrosenick]

Hey Jon & Faris,
Would you mind posting pictures of your ourboards in the raised + lowered states with the mounts in view? I hate to be a pest but my old 2-stroke is on its last legs so I'm going to be in your shoes pretty soon and I would like to know what I'm up against.

Jon - what kind of transom modifications did you need to do? Did you need to modify the lazarette hatch to fit the cowling?

Faris - it sounds like your power tilt does the job without any modifications. Is that the case?

I even hit up CD about their experiences with outboards that fit. They didn't have any examples of working models so you guys seem to be the front runners here.

Thanks!
-Scott

The prop on my short shaft would occasionally leave the water in a good swell. It didn't happen often though and wasn't a big reason for swapping it out. I ditched it because it had low compression, was difficult to start, and was getting old.

I replaced it with a 15 HP 2-stroke Evinrude (the one in the photo above). It had good compression but used a lot of gas. At lower RPMs it would foul plugs. That in turn made it even less fuel efficient. Plus it didn't have the right kind of propeller for a sailboat of this size. I sold it for $200 less than I paid... not bad.

My current outboard is a 8 hp Yamaha 4 stroke high-thrust. The propeller and gear ratio make it perfect for a boat of this size (Catalina-27). It uses less gas than any of the previous outboards, pollutes FAR less than 2 stroke engines, is very quiet, the high-thrust propeller moves the boat second it is placed in gear, has an electric start, and no more mixing oil into the gas. It is so new it is still under manufacturers warranty. Downside? It is my heaviest engine yet, the transom cut-out had to be modified to get the engine to fit, and still it is so wide the engine can't be turned to steer (good-bye thrust vectoring). The upsides outweigh the downsides, though. This is my favorite engine so far.

So to answer your question, if you already have that other engine in hand, why not mount it and try it? You have nothing to lose. If it doesn't work, you can always re-mount the Evinrude.

 

[Jon_E]

Hi Scott -

I don't have a photo of the outboard in the raised and lowered states, but I do have a few on my computer that I can post now. They are mostly self explanatory.
-
On the shot of the tiller (last of the photo), the large cut-out in the top of the hatch had to be made for the Evinrude, the engine I had before the Yamaha. The Yamaha did not require as much room from the hatch.
-
The Evinrude would fit into the existing transom. The top of the transom had to be expanded for the Yamaha. You can see where I had to remove the rub-rail to do the work. You can also see the measurements. I'm not sure I had to go the full 2 inches, I think 1.75 might have been enough.
-
Like the earlier shot of the Evinrude with the lanyard, I also installed a lanyard on the Yamaha. This time I did not screw anything into the cowling but used a strap. There are two screws that hold a clip that holds the top of the cowling... I used those existing screws. It is hard to describe and I wish I had a photo - but the principle is the same. Yank on the lanyard attached to the rear of the cowling to raise the engine, except this time the lanyard is a flat strap, not a piece of line.
-
The engine tiller is a little long on the Yamaha - it doesn't quite fit when the engine is retracted as the end of the tiller bumps up against the underside of the hatch. My options here are:

1. Get a shorter engine tiller from Yamaha, or
2. Cut another small hole in the hatch for the butt of the tiller to fit so the hatch can shut when the engine is retracted, or
3. Get a remote control panel, thus removing the engine tiller altogether, or
4. Leave it as is; no one sits behind the traveler anyway.

I'm leaning toward options 1 or 2. The remote panel is kinda pricey. For the rest of this season at least, it is going to be option 4.

I cannot overstate how much I love the Yamaha 8 HP 4 stroke high thrust electric start engine. It is reliable, moves the boat very well, and quite fuel efficient, and quiet as a mouse.

- Jon

 

[Faris]

it sounds like your power tilt does the job without any modifications. Is that the case?

No, not really. Without modifying the transom, it would raise up so that the prop was about half out of the water. I'm in the middle of a transom mod like what Jon has.

 

[Jon_E]

That makes sense. The Yamaha 9.9 and 8 HP models have the same size engine cowling and the electric power tilt wouldn't have made it smaller. I didn't want to step on Faris' answer, though, because if the model year was different the engine cowling might have been a different size.

 

[Faris]

I actually thought about making a modified cowling (rather than modifying the transom), but I was concerned about cooling and voiding the warrantee.

 

[Jon_E]

I had the same thought, Faris! I was going to try to make a mold out of the old one and fabricate a completely new cowling. I bought several books on mold making and fiberglass techniques. Then I thought about modifying the old one, but the price to replace it should I mess it up is several hundred dollars. As you said, there is the concern of cooling and the warranty. The cowlings are designed to keep water out of the engine at the hand-grip, something I could not easily replicate. If I had to buy another outboard, I'd be at the same place all over again.

You know what? Modifying the transom was so much easier than I thought. Using a Makita angle-grinder, it took less than an hour. Once the fiberglass was ground away, I discovered about an inch of space between the outside and inside transom wall. That requires body-work to fill the void with fiberglass or putty, sand, prime, and paint which takes much longer. The space has been filled, but I've been a little slow at the rest. The only way anyone can see that it still needs to be painted is swimming in the water behind the boat and looking nearly straight up.

 

[jrowan]

Say Jon E,

That sure is a BIG opening you have cut into your transom. Being that U cut the fiberglass directly below that back stay chain plate attachment aren't U concerned about structural cracking with all the tension that the backstay creates on the transom there? Also how do u keep sea water from entering that huge opening? The very small drain below the opening doesn't look big enough to drain out quickly. I would be concerned about a large following wave pooping that area & swamping the engine. Is that open transom cavity sealed to the rest of the hull?

 

[Faris]

The opening is just a tiny bit larger than the original. The following wave scenario simply won't be an issue. You can only fill the engine compartment to capacity, and the extra inch or two really won't make this significantly more likely. In any case, it will only fill the bottom 8" or so, which just won't matter.

The structural issue is a legitimate concern, but I wouldn't worry too much. The transom is overengineered to begin with. When I am done modifying my transom, I will simply install a wide backing plate to distribute the load of the backstay or I will layup some unidirectional glass if I can get in there to do a clean job. But, neither is probably necessary.

 

[Jon_E]

Say Jon E,

That sure is a BIG opening you have cut into your transom. Being that U cut the fiberglass directly below that back stay chain plate attachment aren't U concerned about structural cracking with all the tension that the backstay creates on the transom there?

Not the least bit concerned. First, the little that was removed doesn't provide strengthening for the back stay; there is plenty of fiberglass above it still. Secondly, it is a split back stay. That is three attachment points to three chain plates each getting an equal share of the load for just the back stay. But even if it were not a split back stay, it wouldn't be an issue.

Also how do u keep sea water from entering that huge opening? The very small drain below the opening doesn't look big enough to drain out quickly. I would be concerned about a large following wave pooping that area & swamping the engine.

Most of the volume of water from a wave as big as your describing would flow out the same way it came in. Only the few inches below the opening would need to go out the drain hole. You do know that I only shaved two inches off the top, right? Other than those two inches, the rest of the area is the way it came off the assembly line in 1977. A wave that poops the engine would do so with or without this modification.

Is that open transom cavity sealed to the rest of the hull?

Yes. That is the way Catalina designed it.

 

[Faris]

You do know that I only shaved two inches off the top, right? Other than those two inches, the rest of the area is the way it came off the assembly line in 1977.

Ah ... I'll bet you're right. I'll bet jrowan is thinking that your hull was designed for an inboard and that you cut out the entire hole in the transom. I was wondering why he thought that little bit would make a difference.

That's funny.

 

[ScottGrosenick]

Thanks for the Great Info!

Thanks for the great info! I was really dreading the day when the old 2-stroke bit the dust (its days are numbered, as the shaft has started to rust) but it sounds like I can get away with small mods to the transom and no mods to the lazarette hatch, which makes me feel better about the whole thing.

I keep hearing good things about the Yamaha 8 & the Tohatsu 8 so it looks like the choice will be between the two of them. I'm really tempted by the remote control setup, since it means you don't need to keep reaching down to switch between forward & reverse when docking. When conditions are nasty, it's really hard to peel your eyes off of everything going on to turn around, shift the motor, and then re-orient yourself.

Thanks again! I really appreciate you both sharing your experiences!!