Navigation Channel Markers

DayDreamer41 · Jan 10, 2018

@Gunni my point way back at the top of page 3, who really wants to ruin their day even arguing about who has the right to be where, I know around here there are way too many aggressive folks and are sure to be packing more than a flashlight. I would rather bend than be shot at. I have (3) bridges to lift each time I go out and yes there are many impatient folks out there, I just hang back at the back of the crowd and watch the struggle at the front of the line, I know that until I make it through the bridge will stay up so why fight the crowds. Holding a vessel in position with a cross wind can become tricky, I would rather not be in the fray to boot.

capta · Jan 10, 2018

justsomeguy said:
Shirley you're joking.

You'd rather be on a destroyer in the Pacific war, convoying ships across the North Atlantic in the winter or convoying on the Murmansk run to Russia? Do tell.
I'd go for sailing one of America's finest sailing yachts, any day.

dlochner · Jan 10, 2018

DayDreamer41 said:
I know around here there are way too many aggressive folks and are sure to be packing more than a flashlight.

Isn't sad that we have to worry about this? Really, what has our society come to that we have to be worried about idiots and weapons when we're out to enjoy a day on the water.

DayDreamer41 · Jan 10, 2018

@dlochner couldn't agree with you more, but it surely has come to this, I refuse to endanger my crew or my vessel over a stupid argument who has the right to be where, so I give way regardless, once out in the free space of Lake Huron there is only enjoyment of the day.

justsomeguy · Jan 10, 2018

capta said:
You'd rather be on a destroyer in the Pacific war, convoying ships across the North Atlantic in the winter or convoying on the Murmansk run to Russia? Do tell.
I'd go for sailing one of America's finest sailing yachts, any day.

Didn't know it was an either-or-or proposition.

capta · Jan 10, 2018

DayDreamer41 said:
@dlochner couldn't agree with you more, but it surely has come to this, I refuse to endanger my crew or my vessel over a stupid argument who has the right to be where, so I give way regardless, once out in the free space of Lake Huron there is only enjoyment of the day.

Now this IS interesting.
There are so many that come on here and other sailing forums, who are so terrified of sailing in the eastern Caribbean, that they are willing to carry a whole slew of illegal weapons for defense. Weapons that could cost them their boat and a great many years of their freedom, if found aboard by the local authorities. And yet, one can generally pretty much count the incidents of violence against yachts in the eastern Antilles each year, on the fingers of one hand.
I can't come up with the right word for this incongruity, but I'm sure one of you can.

SFS · Jan 10, 2018

I think incongruity was a pretty fine word.

dlochner · Jan 10, 2018

It is amazing how a simple question that started this thread has touched upon so many significant, important, and meaningful issues. I feel compelled to respond to all of them, but will spare all of you from a long rambling post. So let me respond to a couple of issues while my dinner is warming on the stove.

The purpose of this forum is to discuss issues related to owning a sailboat, after all, it is SailBoatOwners.com. And there are plenty of controversial issues that wholly lie with the confines of owning a sailboat, varnish vs. Cetol vs gray teak comes quickly to mind. However, on this thread and others sailing as a pastime butts up against bigger and more controversial issues, climate change, individual rights, and immediately relevant to this thread 2nd amendment issues. So, how do we address these issues? Do we sweep them under the rug and ignore them? Can we discuss them in a mature manner, without name calling and personal attacks? How do we elevate the conversation, here or elsewhere, to an adult level?

The second issue, and its not really an issue, is history. One poster seemed surprised that private vessels could or would be used for national defense. Despite all the hoopla about threats from those who wish us ill, since the end of the Viet Nam war in 1975 most people in the country have been insulated from the effects of war. Those of us of a certain age remember the impact of war upon our country. When I entered middle school D-Day was still recent history, it occurred only 20 years before. Looking back 20 years from today, the US was mostly at peace. There was that issue in Bosnia, but the effects at home were pretty minimal. Going back 40 years, the US was not involved in any significant way in any military actions, OK, there was that Grenada invasion...

Bringing this back to the comments about using recreational vessels in the war effort during WWII, let me suggest reading Herman Wouk's books, The Winds of War and War and Remembrance. These are epic engaging books and not casual reading, however, they are well worth the effort if for no other reason than to understand what the world was like not so long ago.

There are amongst us, folks who are concerned about the direction our country is heading, this may not be the forum to raise those issues, but do not be silent, find the venue and let your voice be heard.

justsomeguy · Jan 10, 2018

dlochner said:
Looking back 20 years from today, the US was mostly at peace. There was that issue in Bosnia, but the effects at home were pretty minimal. Going back 40 years, the US was not involved in any significant way in any military actions, OK, there was that Grenada invasion...

As far as you've been told, yes.

gettinthere · Jan 10, 2018

how many incidents of one boater shooting at another boater have there been in the last ten years? It certainly isnt an epidemic, like Chicago.

capta · Jan 10, 2018

gettinthere said:
how many incidents of one boater shooting at another boater have there been in the last ten years? It certainly isnt an epidemic, like Chicago.

Apparently it is enough of a threat that some on here avoid any possibility of a confrontation.

Hayden Watson · Jan 10, 2018

jssailem said:
It is a fun video to watch and reflect on the power of water that is at play.
The site is Skookumchuck Narrows that has considerable tidal currents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skookumchuck_Narrows
The tug was trying to navigate upstream. I think he powered up to get the barge moving and the current caught the front of the barge slowing the barges turn. The Tug tried to turn the barge when entering the narrows and the current caught tug forcing the tugs bow down stream. The rest was physics.

Here is a great video showing the true power of Skookumchuck.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...4B1CF726419A82A08D7E4B1CF726419A82A&FORM=VIRE

capta · Jan 10, 2018

Hayden Watson said:
Here is a great video showing the true power of Skookumchuck.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...4B1CF726419A82A08D7E4B1CF726419A82A&FORM=VIRE

Were I but 25 years younger!

dlochner · Jan 10, 2018

gettinthere said:
how many incidents of one boater shooting at another boater have there been in the last ten years? It certainly isnt an epidemic, like Chicago.

Interesting question. But one that has some logical fallacies. It is pretty common knowledge that people are shooting and killing others because of disputes. The second half of your question basically admits that. We know that on the roads drivers have shot other drivers because of road rage. (There was an incident in North Syracuse a couple of years ago, I tried a quick search for a reference but it didn't turn up. I live about 5 miles from where the incident occurred.) If drivers are willing to attack other drivers because of some alleged driving violation, then what's there to assume that it couldn't also occur on the water?

In discussion such as this we need to be careful to not over generalize or to be overly specific. It's like the old joke about why the golfer used a 1 iron on the course during a thunderstorm. He's reasoning was that even God couldn't hit a 1 iron.

Wouldn't you agree that even one person being injured by a gun shot on the water is one too many? Your question implies that there is a tolerable level of gun violence, what if you are that victim?

When I get some more time I'll look for the news reports of the N Syracuse shooting. If someone else has time, Syracuse.com is the local newspaper.

JimInPB · Jan 10, 2018

capta said:
No, they do NOT! If their gear restricts their maneuverability, then they should pull it in. They have no more rights than any other power driven vessel, PERIOD.

It's my understanding that if a vessel is restricted in ability to maneuver, regardless of the reason, then they gain the associated stand on status. You seem fairly adamant that in the case of a recreational fishing boat with poorly chosen gear deployed, this is not the case. I am not going to argue that it should not be the case, but as far as I know, it is the case. If you can point me towards something in the regulations that supports your interpretation, I will gladly reconsider my position.

JimInPB · Jan 10, 2018

capta said:
There were once, and may still be a few, sailing salmon trollers off the west coast

I've seen a sailboat with outriggers deployed. It's a rare sight, but such a thing does exist.

dlochner · Jan 11, 2018

JimInPB said:
It's my understanding that if a vessel is restricted in ability to maneuver, regardless of the reason, then they gain the associated stand on status. You seem fairly adamant that in the case of a recreational fishing boat with poorly chosen gear deployed, this is not the case. I am not going to argue that it should not be the case, but as far as I know, it is the case. If you can point me towards something in the regulations that supports your interpretation, I will gladly reconsider my position.

The answer to your question is in a previous post by BobbyFun:

Looks like that is rule 9c.

A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any other vessel navigating within a narrow channel or fairway.

On the flip side of that. Fwc says any and all public navigable waters are legal for fishing.

Bob J. · Jan 11, 2018

Well this thread has become a shipwreck.
Although there has been some real good advice given here maybe others should consider a different form of peacefull recreation cause obviously having a sailboat isn't working out for ya.

dlochner · Jan 11, 2018

Misfits said:
Well this thread has become a shipwreck.
Although there has been some real good advice given here maybe others should consider a different form of peacefull recreation cause obviously having a sailboat isn't working out for ya.

Give us a break, it's midwinter, we haven't had temperatures above freezing since Christmas, and last weekend we went through 66 continuous hours of snow with the high temps never cracking 2 digits (unless you count the - sign) and low temps falling into the double digits. And we're still 5 months until launch.