My new saildrive

Discussion in 'Ask All Sailors' started by Mark Maulden, Mar 10, 2019. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Jake N Eggs

    Jake N Eggs

    Joined Jun 2, 2011
    283 posts, 17 likes
    Hunter H33
    Ca Port Credit Harbour, ON.
    I feel for you Mark. Is there a possibility to remove the fitting and install a connection hose to run the breather higher? It won't be a permanent fix but maybe you could hold the leak at bay while the manufacturer does their there thing, whatever that may be. At least you may be able to use the boat in the short term.

    Good luck with this.
     


  2. twalker H260

    twalker H260

    Joined Dec 2, 2003
    368 posts, 30 likes
    Hunter 260
    CA winnipeg, Manitoba
    Have you checked if the motor/sail drive base is parallel to the water line now the boat is in the water? (Fore/aft). How much of a starboard list?
     


  3. LeslieTroyer

    LeslieTroyer

    Joined May 20, 2016
    2,576 posts, 1,192 likes
    Catalina 36 MK1
    US Everett, WA
    Mark
    Can you hav the old one driven and see if it does it outside the boat.
     


  4. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    Not sure how that could be done. I did put a torpedo level across the top and it’s really close to level. Not much of a list but several degrees. Using a half tank of fuel improves it a lot. But..this saildrive better work under angular situations. Ie motor sailing..
     


    LloydB likes this.
  5. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    Well its now property of marin technical college so unknown. There’s no reason to believe it would act differently out of boat..
     


  6. Charles Erwin

    Charles Erwin

    Joined Jan 30, 2012
    1,041 posts, 160 likes
    Nor'Sea 27 - "Kiwanda"
    US Portland/Anacortes
    Mark

    The the fluid expands from agitation and fluid temperature. So some form of 'ventilation' or other expansion reserve capacity is mandatory. That could be overflow recovery (think radiator/recovery tank) or a generous air space above the 'cold/at rest' fluid level. For example - outdrives are totally sealed no venting because they are typically submerged in seawater - thus there is pretty good empty headroom for fluid expansion.

    So If it were me I would fill to minimum level, use, and during use keep cleaning up the overflow as it occurs. Do not add any fluid thereafter and see if the overflow rate declines and eventually stops. My bet is it will. More specifically is make/or obtain a screw and use that in place of the dipstick. The new screw is drilled through the top with a press on tube leading to a plastic bottle. That way you can see what is expelled and whether it stops without the mess you are suffering now.

    Think of it this way (hypothetically of course) how would it behave if the measuring stick was too short. That would mean an overfill but you would have never know based on the stick. In motor builds I always use a measured quantity of fluid and then see if the stick marks match up - sometimes they don't even if they are factory issue.

    Would not worry about too much fluid expelling - you not suffering from too little fluid.

    Charles

    Edit : Forgot - I assume yours is the #60 Drive and there should be a breather next to the stick - see that it is clear and operative . I would still stage the experiment I outline above
     


    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  7. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
     


  8. Charles Erwin

    Charles Erwin

    Joined Jan 30, 2012
    1,041 posts, 160 likes
    Nor'Sea 27 - "Kiwanda"
    US Portland/Anacortes
    Right - I thought as much about your description of the parts.

    So far all you know for sure is it leaks - probably via the vent - but not how much or how fast the rate.

    I express no opinion whether the min/max stick lines are reliable - they might match up.

    Either way the objective of the exercise I suggest is to quantify how much expels from 'oil full' to when it stops expelling - if ever. How much the unit expels would be most helpful to you and the Italians too.

    Can't think of much else right now but I will look further. So far I think the lube arrangement is a 'bathed in ATF' system (so to speak.) I do not see any pump pressurizing the drive lube system - so whatever is causing this is involves gear rotation and/or temperature.

    Charles
     


  9. Mechone

    Mechone

    Joined Mar 20, 2016
    187 posts, 43 likes
    Beneteau 351
    ca WYC Whitby
    I wonder if they take the plate off the top ,if there is a baffle /deflection plate to deflect spraying oil off the gears back down into the box? I have worked on rebuilt hundreds of industrial gearboxes many have baffles built in.Without it the oil is spraying up against the breather and puking out.The check valve on the breather opens as pressure builds ,thus not blowing out the seals
     


  10. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    I was leafing through the service manual and there seems to be a pump of some kind.
     


  11. Charles Erwin

    Charles Erwin

    Joined Jan 30, 2012
    1,041 posts, 160 likes
    Nor'Sea 27 - "Kiwanda"
    US Portland/Anacortes
    One wonders at the check valve - keeps atmosphere out or keeps oil in? Is this a standard (open shut) valve or pressure activated. I don't know but knowing how much fluid goes 'overboard' would tell you something about the valve and alot more too.
     


  12. Charles Erwin

    Charles Erwin

    Joined Jan 30, 2012
    1,041 posts, 160 likes
    Nor'Sea 27 - "Kiwanda"
    US Portland/Anacortes
    Do see a label designating 'to water pump' in the 60. But do not have manual. Can you send page with suspect pump?
     


    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
  13. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    Post 15 of this thread is the document. Item #44
     


  14. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    The water pump is raw pump on engine. It draws water from the slots in the bottom of saildrive and then into heat exchanger. I am not using the water passageways in the saildrive. My very first question before I bought it was if I had to use them. I pull raw water from a through hull. I would have no idea how to clean the barnies out of those passageways. Beta assured me this was acceptable..
     


  15. LeslieTroyer

    LeslieTroyer

    Joined May 20, 2016
    2,576 posts, 1,192 likes
    Catalina 36 MK1
    US Everett, WA
    Boiling oil??
     


  16. Charles Erwin

    Charles Erwin

    Joined Jan 30, 2012
    1,041 posts, 160 likes
    Nor'Sea 27 - "Kiwanda"
    US Portland/Anacortes
    Only over the perimeter of the battlements
     


    LeslieTroyer likes this.
  17. Gene S

    Gene S

    Joined Nov 29, 2015
    175 posts, 40 likes
    Delphia 37
    US Tacoma
    Is the breather in the correct position? The manual shows it towards the edge, not in the middle. I'm just guessing right now.
     


  18. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    The one toward the edge is an older version. We all know the i’net is full of old crap that nobody pulls. I heard from Italy this morning. They say it is impossible to have this happen. Nobody else has this issue. They did not say how many units are in service. They are now aware of the degree of ATF loss. They say there is a slight chance of a mfgr defect that might cause this. They are sending (again) a new top plate/shims etc. along with a kit to elevate the breather vent. Hmm, they have a kit? And nobody else has issues? This will be their last chance...
     


    Sefuller likes this.
  19. kloudie1

    kloudie1

    Joined Nov 6, 2006
    8,287 posts, 753 likes
    Hunter 34
    US Mandeville Louisiana
    Sounds like the oil might not be draining back enough.. I know that is a "duuh" answer, but having worked with similar problems, I have to wonder if they changed something that they are not thinking about.. like the bearing cage (retainer) design or material in the upper bearing.. or the size or location of the drain-back passages ..
    I like the design of the off-center breather better because it has the breather out of the main drain-back flow path which might allow better separation of liquid from expanding air.. A solution might be to put in a catch tank kind of like a coolant catch tank mounted at the level of the breather. That would catch the escaping oil and allow the case to breathe and drain the oil back into the case when shut down. Sounds like someone at the factory is not fessing up..
     


  20. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    Latest: Italy says maybe a defect in top plate manufacturing. There many others out there with no problems. They are sending a top plate again. I told them their engineer should personally inspect before shipment. This will be the third attempt. They are also supplying a kit to raise level of the breather. They have a kit? And I’m the only one with this problem? Last night I responded to their email and said this the last time. If this doesnt work it’s Volvo time. Not at my expense.
     


    jssailem and kloudie1 like this.


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