My new saildrive

Discussion in 'Ask All Sailors' started by Mark Maulden, Mar 10, 2019. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    This is a thread that continues from a thread in Engines titled “air leak” that morphed into my saildrive issues. I repowered a yr ago along with a new saildrive both from Beta. The new saildrive has been puking ATF out the top breather vent. Beta sent a supposed fix that involved top plate replacement that did not work. I said new saildrive which was installed end of last week. It survived a one hour tour and a half hr run at dockside. Had lunch today with Les and John and then headed to the boat. I needed to wash it and I let the engine run concurrently. Ten minutes in, it started puking ATF out the breather. This saildrive is a Twin Disc Technodrive Seaprop 60 supposedly made in Italy. Monday are some very pointed phone calls to Beta and I think I’m going to demand a Volvo replacement. This is getting ridiculous!! More coming..
     


  2. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    8,994 posts, 3,910 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Oh no. And we had such a great time at lunch.

    Disappointing. Something is not right. Hope you get to the bottom of it quickly.
     


    Hello Below likes this.
  3. LeslieTroyer

    LeslieTroyer

    Joined May 20, 2016
    2,576 posts, 1,192 likes
    Catalina 36 MK1
    US Everett, WA
  4. Ron20324

    Ron20324

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    6,836 posts, 856 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Annapolis MD
    Is the dipstick(s) marked wrong, allowing overfill and foaming?
     


  5. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    First question I asked was if the right dipstick was installed. No foaming..solid ATF.
     


  6. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    8,994 posts, 3,910 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Mark It seems pressure is building in the unit. Is there a vent stuck? Perhaps there should be a seal that is not properly set and the ATF is getting past it.

    Without schematics only guesses. What could be causing the pressure build up?
     


  7. Ron20324

    Ron20324

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    6,836 posts, 856 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Annapolis MD
    Okay, I should have added, was the ATF premeasured so as to be the right amount, or just the dipstick used as to proper level?
     


  8. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    I'm not sure it’s pressure..Sure, oil is getting to the top plate..But that’s where the end bearing is. It needs oil. The shims and bolt torques determine the upper bearing preload. I think the drain back is screwed up. What really boggles my brain is they did NOT want the first one back for failure analysis. It’s a throwaway unit. (Chinese?) It was donated to the local college maritime tech school. I had a discussion with them and i want to know the failure mode and they were very accomodating. It will be interesting to know if they want the second one back...I spent 37 yrs in aerospace engineering. My first response would have been to send it back immediately.
     


  9. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    Both. It called for 3ltr. Three qts were put in. After the 1 hr tour, the level on the dipstick was below the lower line. It was filled to cose to the upper line. Today before running, it measured right at upper line...
     


  10. twalker H260

    twalker H260

    Joined Dec 2, 2003
    368 posts, 30 likes
    Hunter 260
    CA winnipeg, Manitoba
    Sounds like you may have over filled it. - I cant find the full service manual but based on the betamarine installation manual the saildrive calls for a minimum 2.5ltrs of atf and a max of 2.65 Ltrs. With 3qrts on initial fill it is already over max fill (2.8ltrs)

    https://www.betamarinenc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Seaprop-60-installation-instructions.pdf

    Is it possible the saildrive isn’t installed level with the waterline affecting the dip stick measurement or that the dipstick isn’t seating fully?

    How long after turning off motor did you wait before rechecking fluid level in transmission?
     


    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  11. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    Page 13 of that doc under Tec Specs. Oil capacity of 3ltr. Three qt is 2.838 ltr. Add another 120ml and its 3ltr and at the top line of dipstick. With the initial saildrive, I had the level well down below the lower line and problem still existed.
     


  12. twalker H260

    twalker H260

    Joined Dec 2, 2003
    368 posts, 30 likes
    Hunter 260
    CA winnipeg, Manitoba
    Yes, I did see that. However the information on page 12 seems to agree with the information I gave above which is listed on page 7. Page 13 appears to give the overall size of the sump. I would ask for clarification from manifacturer. You could also try their drain and refill procedure on page 12. Refilling to the upper drain plug and add the .15ltr to see if the problem still persists at that point.

    You didn’t state if you are checking level with engine running or off?
     


  13. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    Boat has a stbd list. The pressure method on pg 12 is the process i used on the initial saildrive. In the end, it’s all about the correct dipstick reading. All this is done with engine off and having sit for a day.
     


  14. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    Talked to Stanley at Beta north carolina. He was somewhat familiar with my problem as there were conversations between Sausilito, N.Carolina, UK, and Italy..He simply stated it sounded like a defective breather vent. My response: It’s just an open hole right? He stated there is a checkvalve inside it. We might have changed out a whole saildrive when a $ 1.49 part could have fixed it..But, we now have two different saildrives and two different breather vents having the same problem...everbody is contemplating...
     


  15. twalker H260

    twalker H260

    Joined Dec 2, 2003
    368 posts, 30 likes
    Hunter 260
    CA winnipeg, Manitoba
    Found service manual. It also mentions oil capacity of 2.65ltrs as do most other web sources I can find. Wouldn’t be the first time that a dipstick was incorrect.

    http://www.errenzo.nl/amfilerating/file/download/file_id/323/

    Likely a silly question but any chance the dipstick isn’t fully inserted when checking giving an erroneous reading?
     


    Last edited: Mar 11, 2019
  16. Apex

    Apex

    Joined Jun 19, 2013
    837 posts, 116 likes
    Oday 28
    US Traverse City
    ....unless they are already aware of the root cause. Perhaps that $1.50 check valve costs more in shipping/teardown/replacement/and re-assembly than the cost of a new unit. Staggering
     


  17. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    Check valve is in the breather on the top plate. It would take longer to find the right size wrench than swapping it out
     


  18. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    “Likely a silly question but any chance the dipstick isn’t fully inserted when checking giving an erroneous reading?“
    I do know to work a dipstick and it’s very accessable.
     


  19. NotCook

    NotCook

    Joined Dec 29, 2008
    656 posts, 172 likes
    Treworgy 65' Custom Steel Pilothouse Staysail Ketch
    US St. Croix, Virgin Islands
    Not to hijack your thread, but we have a different problem with our BorgWarner Velvet Drive. We lose a pint of transmission fluid after an hour of running the engine in gear. I have a plastic Tupperware tray under it to catch it. While I can’t actually see it running out, it seems to be seeping out of the shift lever arm assembly where it enters the side of the case near the top. One wouldn’t expect it to be able to throw out so much fluid in such a short time, without leaving a running stream of it down the side of the case, but we cannot find any other obvious leak. I pump as much fluid out of the tray as I have to put back in.

    Boats!
     


  20. Mark Maulden

    Mark Maulden

    Joined Jan 25, 2011
    1,902 posts, 218 likes
    S2 11.0A
    US Anacortes, WA
    The latest from Italy. I was informed that there is no way with the latest top plate design that ATF can be blown out of the breather vent. I was asked to verify that the dipstick was installed correctly. I gave them a very detailed description of how I insert the dipstick and read it. I was asked to make sure the ATF level is below the max mark on the dipstick. (yawn). I was also asked to to clean and dry the top plate of the sail drive and spread talcum powder to show that there is ATF leaking out. I don't think they get it..see pic. this is about 5 seconds worth of leaking after 1/2 hr engine run.. IMG_1884.jpg
     


    Last edited: Mar 13, 2019
    jssailem likes this.


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