I stopped by my boat yesterday to fit the new bulkhead and fix a few other things. Upon inspecting the centerboard I found a outward protruding point with three cracks coming from the center. The cracks are 4-8" long but not very wide. The other side of the keel is smooth. We had a couple of -27°F days so I'm guessing some water got in there and froze. The repair is fairly straightforward, grind, fill, fair, but how would I go about tracing this leak to prevent this in the future?
My keel thinks it's a popsicle!
- Thread starter Project_Mayhem
- Start date
Look at the seams where the CB halves were joined.
Look at any hardware attachments, CB pennants, pivot points, etc.
Pay careful attention to anything that is below the water line and places where dissimilar materials meet. Differential rates of expansion and contraction can open up some cracks around the fitting.
Look at any hardware attachments, CB pennants, pivot points, etc.
Pay careful attention to anything that is below the water line and places where dissimilar materials meet. Differential rates of expansion and contraction can open up some cracks around the fitting.
I forgot the mention that the boat has been on the hard for the past 2.5 years. I'm guessing water got into the bilge and worked its way into the keel?
If the trunk is the inside of the keel then this would be the outside of the keel. Centerboard has what I believe to be unrelated damage. Phone died yesterday so I wasnt able to get any pics
Last edited:
Grind it out to see what the problem is.
On my keel I had a similar situation, I drilled a hole in to the bubble and sand came out. After opening up the areas, it appeared that the casting was flawed and some of the lead flowed around the sand casting sealing a bunch of sand within the lead. Over time, water had gradually seeped in and eventually froze enough that it bubbled out.
On my keel I had a similar situation, I drilled a hole in to the bubble and sand came out. After opening up the areas, it appeared that the casting was flawed and some of the lead flowed around the sand casting sealing a bunch of sand within the lead. Over time, water had gradually seeped in and eventually froze enough that it bubbled out.
How long ago did this happen to your keel? In my case it seems like 2.5 years would be long enough for the moisture to escape so I'm guessing it soaked in recently?
The boat was 20+ years old. A boat is like the Hotel California where water intrusion is concerned. A very small hole or crack can let in a lot of water over time. However, the hole is so small that it just won't evaporate out. A second issue is hydrostatic pressure. A submerged part of the boat will have a lot water pressure that can force water in to the crack, once the boat is out of the water, there is no pressure to force the water out.
That makes sense. I'll grind it away, take a few pics and leave it ground down for a week or two so any remaining moisture has a higher chance of escaping.
On another note, the yard has blocks under the front and back of the keel which prevents my centerboard from dropping down for repair. Would it be safe to jack up the boat below the trunk just enough to slide the blocks forward? In other words, is the trunk/keel side strong enough to support the weight?
On another note, the yard has blocks under the front and back of the keel which prevents my centerboard from dropping down for repair. Would it be safe to jack up the boat below the trunk just enough to slide the blocks forward? In other words, is the trunk/keel side strong enough to support the weight?
If your keel has the same issue as mine, the sand will fall out and it will dry in a matter of a few hours. Keels are not cast with a great deal of care. Many are very rough when they leave the foundry, the builder then installs the keel and fairs it. If the keel is encapsulated in fiberglass, some are, then it will be a different story.
A properly blocked boat should have almost all of the weight supported by the keel as the keel is the strongest part of the boat. The stands are just there to keep it from falling over. The keel should be blocked fore and aft in at least 2 places. Before you try to lift the boat, talk to the yard. They can get very fussy about moving stands and jacking boats. Ask them for advice on how to drop the CB. If you get Practical Sailor there was a recent article on storing boats on the hard.
I was under the impression that keels were always encapsulated in fiberglass. Good to know. I'll be sure to pickup a better breathing mask. Thanks for all of your advice!
My yard uses cradles. When I had my O 25, they always blocked it to prevent removal of the keel. They didn't want the blocks far enough forward and aft to allow CB removal.
If I wanted the keel out I needed to let them know when they pulled the boat and they dropped it. Then they put it back when the boat was slung for spring splash.
Talking about the O 25, you are correct. The shell of the trunk was formed, then slabs of lead were laid in place on edge. Then they filled the trunk with epoxy (or vinyl polyester, whatever the boat was laid up with).
A few years back someone directed their O 25 and posted the pics. Their gone now, wish I'd saved them.
I've read of water intrusion into the trunk causing swelling. This sounds like what happened to you.
There are no keel bolts so look for a crack in the bilge area or inside the CB slot in the trunk. Maybe in the area where the pendant comes down for the CB.
Are barnacles and algae able to grow on non-encapsulated lead keels?
- If memory serves me correctly, most of the O'Days I've seen use a non-serviceable steel hook that can be seen in the cabin bilge. I'm guessing it's only purpose was to lift the keel during assembly
- I reduced the size of my tarp significantly after the first one collected water and destroyed a stanchion. There was snow in the cockpit so I will definitely feed a snake cam down the pendant hole
- I rebedded two fittings last weekend. The previous owner used a sealant and one of those had failed after he claimed to have resealed it earlier this year. The probability is high that there are leaks draining to the bilge. It would explain why I've seen water in there in the past
Yes.
Could be. Some boats are dry sailed and lifted by a fitting on the keel, mostly these are racing boats like J24, J22, etc.
Don't use silicone products. They are not easily removed. Use Butyl tape.
https://marinehowto.com/bed-it-tape/
https://shop.marinehowto.com/products/bed-it-tape
I got a chance to grind into the keel today. The cracks are deep. As you can see they go through the outer fiberglass shell and into what appears to be another type of resin. This inner part felt cool and slightly damp. Last time I checked the bilge was dry. I did not check it today.
At the advice of a yard staff member I stopped at this point to get some more advice. I assume I should keep grinding to see how far the rabbit hole goes? There's clearly two types of resin and cloth used in the keel. Any advice on what materials to fill this back in with? The last pic is some thickened resin we put over it to temporarily keep rain water out
At the advice of a yard staff member I stopped at this point to get some more advice. I assume I should keep grinding to see how far the rabbit hole goes? There's clearly two types of resin and cloth used in the keel. Any advice on what materials to fill this back in with? The last pic is some thickened resin we put over it to temporarily keep rain water out
Looks like you ground thru the outer shell of the keel into the cavity where the lead plates and filler material is.
Remember the O’day 25 does not have a typical encapsulated solid lead keel where you can grind down to solid lead and re fiberglass it.
The O’day keel started as a shell that had lead placed in it, then a filler material poured in to secure the lead.
You didn’t mention seeing any water dripping out of the area so I doubt there is an active leak.
If it was my boat I would lay up one large patch over the whole area and go sailing. If the cracks reappear later then drill some holes in the fall so maybe it will dry out over the winter. Then patch the holes in the spring.
Remember the O’day 25 does not have a typical encapsulated solid lead keel where you can grind down to solid lead and re fiberglass it.
The O’day keel started as a shell that had lead placed in it, then a filler material poured in to secure the lead.
You didn’t mention seeing any water dripping out of the area so I doubt there is an active leak.
If it was my boat I would lay up one large patch over the whole area and go sailing. If the cracks reappear later then drill some holes in the fall so maybe it will dry out over the winter. Then patch the holes in the spring.
The West System Manual (available on the West System Site) has good information on applying a patch. The Boatworks Today youtube channel has some videos on patching.
I would grind it out until the cracks were gone, since some of them appear deep. If it gets to the point where it looks like the lead pieces are going to fall out, then glue them back in with some thickened epoxy.
I would grind it out until the cracks were gone, since some of them appear deep. If it gets to the point where it looks like the lead pieces are going to fall out, then glue them back in with some thickened epoxy.
What type of fiberglass cloth should I use? What weight and how many layers would you recommend? The original crack was somewhat close to the edge of the aft block. Should I request the block be moved further aft?
The fiberglass should be a thick as the original hull. Once you have it opened up, take a straight edge and measure the depth.
Contact the tech support people at Jamestown Distributors (https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/main.do) or West System for advice on the cloth. The last layer should be 1708 with the mat side out. 1708 is a cloth that has mat sewn on to one side. Mat makes a good outer layer because it fairs out easily and doesn't have print through from the cloth. Mat is, however, close to worthless for structural purposes. Jamestown's Total Boat product line is getting favorable reviews and is a little less expensive than West. JD sells both West System and their own Total Boat line.
Once you you grind it all out, you'll know if the blocking needs to be moved.
Instead of putting resin on the open area, just tape some plastic over the opening, saves some sanding. When you are completely done with the sanding, you'll want one of these stickers to remind you of the fun you had. https://saillifeshop.com/collections/frontpage/products/oh-glorious-sanding-sticker