Mainsheet Cleat
- Thread starter truckman
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Silvio. I copied and installed rpwillia’s design about 12 months ago, using a Harken cleat on Marine Ply. This has held so far in up to 28kts. Haven’t had to throw off the mainsheet in anything over 20kts due to pre-adjustment of Traveller. But relatively easy up to then.
It helps greatly with un/furling the main when the sheet has to be loosened, but kept captive.
Had I seen at the time the combo cleat truckman installed, I probably would have chosen that.
It helps greatly with un/furling the main when the sheet has to be loosened, but kept captive.
Had I seen at the time the combo cleat truckman installed, I probably would have chosen that.
Thanks for the thoughts Albanach.
The timing of Truckmans post is spot on for me. I ordered and received an identical Harken 150 cam cleat with the extreme angle fairlead as he used and when I got it in place there just isn't enough room with all the rope clutches to mount it and be sure I will hit the backing plate without moving all the clutches over an inch or so. My next thought was to go the route that Paulj has chosen. So far I have ordered a Garhauer rope clutch like the ones catalina installed and I have removed the traveller line from its clutch and routed the mainsheet into it. The mainsheet leads to the winch ideally like this, but as was pointed out above it requires a trip to the clutch or winch to adjust the mainsheet. I haven't sailed with the mainsheet run in this manner yet, maube Paulj will share his experience with this set up?
My latest thought is to "leap frog" the outer most rope clutch to an inner most position and gain the room outboard to install the Harken cam cleat. I will put up pictures in a couple weeks when I get back to Florida and decide which way to go. I really like the idea of the cam cleat for ease of use single handed but I also really like the security of the rope clutch for a set and forget sail. Maybe a combination of the two is the answer.
Great discussion and excellent pics!
Witzend
Re
Not sure what I do is cumbersome......but would be alot eaiser with Truckman's setup ......but still would have to go foward and read the label
In local sailing condtions.... Well I don't adjust the main sail angle that much and when I do, I use the main sheet carr.Used to have a windward sheeting carr on 250.
When I get a whisker pole, my downwind cruising style will change so I'd probley revamp the main sheet setup like Truckman but can't find a good locatin for a label
paulj :troll:
"The mainsheet leads to the winch ideally like this, but as was pointed out above it requires a trip to the clutch or winch to adjust the mainsheet. I haven't sailed with the mainsheet run in this manner yet, maube Paulj will share his experience with this set up?"
Silvio
The second time I had taken the sailboat out, I was sailing Strait of San Jaun de Fuca in 20 knot winds and the main sheet came loose ( you all know why ) .
This event happened so fast I nearly fell overboard. Brought the boat under control? Then I wraped the mainsheet line around the winch to secure it.
Went to the nearest port to fix this problem, good thing I didn't over react, there was a spare clutch in the boat so I installed it......sailed home and never had a reason to changed the setup.
Note: The steering brake knob on the pedistal is made to break-off sooooo if a line gets tangled on it you maybe OK.
The only certian thing about having the clucth is.... my windows don't leak.
paulj :troll:
Silvio
The second time I had taken the sailboat out, I was sailing Strait of San Jaun de Fuca in 20 knot winds and the main sheet came loose ( you all know why ) .
This event happened so fast I nearly fell overboard. Brought the boat under control? Then I wraped the mainsheet line around the winch to secure it.
Went to the nearest port to fix this problem, good thing I didn't over react
, there was a spare clutch in the boat so I installed it......sailed home and never had a reason to changed the setup.Note: The steering brake knob on the pedistal is made to break-off sooooo if a line gets tangled on it you maybe OK.
The only certian thing about having the clucth is.... my windows don't leak.
paulj :troll:
In the Chessy on a NWterly we typicaly have gusty conditions. I will play the traveler, but inevitably as wind conditions increase, the need to twist the top off by relieving the sheet occurs, as it backs off again I will want to harden up, so I'm working both. I guess it is the competitive instinct still in my blood.
It really seems to me that you guys are complicating a simple situation.
Your boats are NOT dinghies that need constant adjustment of the mainsheet.
The most important thing that the clam cleat failed to recognize, is that the mainsheet should simply need to be on the winch WITH THE PROPER FAIRLEAD.
The clam cleats negated this necessity.
Using a sheetstopper or any other kind of clutch fulfills this design criteria.
The simple way to POP the mainsheet is to keep the clutch (sheetstopper or ANY other device) OPEN, so that the winch holds the mainsheet. As noted by others earlier in this thread, using the traveler to drop the boom is the MOST effective way to dump air fast. Why? Because dumping the mainsheet is a royal PITA 'cuz grinding it all back in as a LOT harder than simply pulling the traveler back up.
Clam cleats for a mainsheet on a boat as large as yours and ours makes no sense. They provide no good fair lead for the main sheet to the winch. The winch should be the means of securing the mainsheet, not the sheetstopper.
Your boats are NOT dinghies that need constant adjustment of the mainsheet.
The most important thing that the clam cleat failed to recognize, is that the mainsheet should simply need to be on the winch WITH THE PROPER FAIRLEAD.
The clam cleats negated this necessity.
Using a sheetstopper or any other kind of clutch fulfills this design criteria.
The simple way to POP the mainsheet is to keep the clutch (sheetstopper or ANY other device) OPEN, so that the winch holds the mainsheet. As noted by others earlier in this thread, using the traveler to drop the boom is the MOST effective way to dump air fast. Why? Because dumping the mainsheet is a royal PITA 'cuz grinding it all back in as a LOT harder than simply pulling the traveler back up.
Clam cleats for a mainsheet on a boat as large as yours and ours makes no sense. They provide no good fair lead for the main sheet to the winch. The winch should be the means of securing the mainsheet, not the sheetstopper.
I Disagree,
First of all, the original design is not lined up to the winch properly anyway and the locking mechanism is a joke. My improvement with the use of the swivel, solves both of those problems.
Second, being able to adjust the sheet from the helm is a big advantage, remember we are not always sailing on a tight beat hard down, the traveler doesn't provide enough scope for proper adjustments on a reach.
Since it is hard to see around the sails, 98% of the time I sail, it's from the cat seats with a hiking out stick.
OR use the remote control...............with eagle eye
paulj :troll:
OR use the remote control...............with eagle eye
paulj :troll:
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Hello, Paul, Itching to go out today, but no wind down south. Any wind up north?? Hoping for it to fill in tomorrow. I like your remote eagle eye and have heard good things about its ability to see long distances ahead of the boat even at night. I have also heard that you have to clean up the deck constantly. Could you post a pic and info with your attachment to the wheel with your tiller stick.
Keep em coming I love your posts and pics.
dave
Keep em coming I love your posts and pics.
dave
Having spent yesterday sailing in winds shifting in directions, and strengths from 18 to 28kts in 5 to 10 minute intervals (one of the craziest days experienced for a while on the local bay) and having one crew for a change, I agree with Witzend. Because of the variable windspeeds in reasonably protected waters we left the full 135 and main up. Just played the traveller and mainsheet, and was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to throw off the mainsheet from the Harken cleat when necessary, to maintain control (even from helm distance) at any strength of wind. Our maxs peed was 7.09 kts that day, towing a dinghy with motor attached.
Truckman, on your design, if you needed to use the winch for another reason and your main sheet was under considerable load (judging from the angles presented in your photo, the sheet would not be in the clam jaws) in order to free up the winch you would need to somehow get the sheet back into the clam jaws. Normally you need to pull the sheet to accomplish this. So let's see... crank the winch a little more while putting your foot on the short portion of the sheet that is running from the cleat to the winch and force it down into the jaws and then release the sheet from the winch.
Has this been a problem or do I have the angles wrong?
Has this been a problem or do I have the angles wrong?
Witzend, My set up works flawlessly. 99.999% of the time the mainsheet is captured in the cam and I trim when necessary and really handy when tacking and jibing to pull in the slack from the comfort of the helm. My wife on occasion has put it on the winch and it leads to the winch while still in the cam. If you need to pop it out of the cam or put it back in the cam all that is required is a gentle push or pull as the sheet slides easily into the cam from the winch. Thats what makes it so great. There is minimal effort required even under heavy loads to capture the sheet or release it due to the construction of the cam. To release the sheet even under heavy loading all that is required is to pop the sheet up no pulling on the line is required. Again thats what makes it so great. In regards to your question about having to use the winch for something else I suppose that could happen. I could use the primary.
Stu,
I agree with using the winch as the primary control for the main sheet. The way my boat came from the factory has FIVE rope clutches on the port and FOUR clutches to starboard plus the clam sheet stopper. The clam stopper as installed by Catalina is so far outboard that it makes a good 20 degree bend back toward the winch and 10 degree lift to lead it to the winch. The main sheet NEVER runs clear and is fraying from rubbing the adjoining rope clucth. I assume the keeper broke off within a short period under sail as the sheet would put considerable side loading on it.
I did consider using a fairlead in place of the clam stopper but then got to looking at the Harken 150 with fairlead. Truckman confirmed my suspicion that when the main sheet is lead to the winch it will have a low friction lead through the extreme angle fairlead while not having to be locked into the clam cleat. As an added benefit when in light winds the clam cleat can be used without the winch and the main sheet can be lead back to the helm.
Looks like an elegant solution to me. I just moved my starboard rope clutches to make the necessary room. I will post pics when I finish the installation.
First lesson learned during this project: Don't think I will fill screw holes with marine tex next time as tonights project is to drill out the filled holes enough to get gelcoat into 'em :dance:
5 and 4 wow!
Mine has 4 and 3.
Port:
Jib halyard
Spin halyard
Main out-haul
Main furlow (in mast)
Starboard:
Mail halyard
Vang
Topping lift
What do the other 2 clutches do?
Maybe, main reef, but then you would not be using the ferlow clutch?
How about a Cunningham hook, and Spin pole topping lift?
Hey Witzend,
I know, it is a LOT of rope clutches. But the up side is the deck is neat ad everything is lead to the cockpit. The only other lines I have are the sheets for the roller genoa which I have lead through the same blocks that I use for the cruising chute ("use" here as in potential as I haven't flown it yet) and then to the cockpit winches. The blocks work really well for keeping the jib sheets from rubbing the dodger when the rollers are forward. I have sailed with the full genoa in about 18 knots (a little too much while solo) and the blocks to the winches worked well.
Port side is
1-spinnaker halyard (used with the cruising chute and lead out of the mast above the genoa halyard)
2- genoa halyard
3- main out-haul
4- main in-haul
5- traveler
starboard is
1- boom vang
2- main halyard
3- traveler
4- topping lift
and bow what would be the clam cleat is now a cam with fairlead.
Silvio
I know, it is a LOT of rope clutches. But the up side is the deck is neat ad everything is lead to the cockpit. The only other lines I have are the sheets for the roller genoa which I have lead through the same blocks that I use for the cruising chute ("use" here as in potential as I haven't flown it yet) and then to the cockpit winches. The blocks work really well for keeping the jib sheets from rubbing the dodger when the rollers are forward. I have sailed with the full genoa in about 18 knots (a little too much while solo) and the blocks to the winches worked well.
Port side is
1-spinnaker halyard (used with the cruising chute and lead out of the mast above the genoa halyard)
2- genoa halyard
3- main out-haul
4- main in-haul
5- traveler
starboard is
1- boom vang
2- main halyard
3- traveler
4- topping lift
and bow what would be the clam cleat is now a cam with fairlead.
Silvio
Came from Catalina that way. The previous owner may have ordered it like that. Everything comes through a deck organizer under the traveler.
Where do yours cleat off? My only experience with a traveler was on smaller Catalina 22's where the traveler was cleated using cam cleats in the cockpit near the traveler.
They have clam cleats right on the traveler unit, real easy to opperate from the helm. I have been thinking of adding some fairleads and put the clams back at the helm to get the lines out of the cockpit. I would think clutches would be rather cumbersome to use for a traveler. When sailing I'm always playing with them fro the helm.
Witzend,
You must not have a dodger installed then? With the lines running under the dodger I don't think I would be able to release a clam cleat on the traveler. I have only really eased the traveler in fairly heavy wind to spill wind and reduce heal. Other than that I haven't used it much and the clutches work fine in that circumstance. Most fiddling around I do regarding sail sape and twist is with the solid vang and the occasional tweaking of the traveler. I am by no means an expert sailor so "fiddling" is really all I'm doing with the sails
Looks like I will head out Friday afternoon and spend the weekend trying out the new mainsheet arrangement ! Yippeeee!!!!!
Lesson number 2 learned from this process----- don't try to ream out the clam cleat to fit a #12-24 screw, use a #10-24. Even though it is a darn close fit, the blasted cap covering the ball bearings will pop off and dump bearings all over the cockpit floor. Glad to provide entertainment to the others at the dock.
You must not have a dodger installed then? With the lines running under the dodger I don't think I would be able to release a clam cleat on the traveler. I have only really eased the traveler in fairly heavy wind to spill wind and reduce heal. Other than that I haven't used it much and the clutches work fine in that circumstance. Most fiddling around I do regarding sail sape and twist is with the solid vang and the occasional tweaking of the traveler. I am by no means an expert sailor so "fiddling" is really all I'm doing with the sails
Looks like I will head out Friday afternoon and spend the weekend trying out the new mainsheet arrangement ! Yippeeee!!!!!
Lesson number 2 learned from this process----- don't try to ream out the clam cleat to fit a #12-24 screw, use a #10-24. Even though it is a darn close fit, the blasted cap covering the ball bearings will pop off and dump bearings all over the cockpit floor. Glad to provide entertainment to the others at the dock.
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