There are a lot of 20 to 30 year old boats (not just O’Day) that may be experiencing keel issues.
For the 322 this story becomes more positive as it goes on.
I found an owner review (below) that was done about 15-years ago. With the help of Google, I was able to track down the owner and called him.
In 1994, he was sailing down the Chesapeake when the bilge pump couldn't keep up with the inflow of water. The keel had partially ripped out and was held mainly by the aft keel bolt. A Mayday call was made and the Coast Guard responded and staunched the flow by stuffing horsehair into the voids. The boat limped to the Repair Yard and a fix was made as outlined later.
The owner said when the boat was out of the water, he could turn the keel bolt nuts by hand.
After the modification, years passed, and when under full power, the hydrokeel slams a concrete underwater obstruction that brought the boat to a shuddering halt. The boat was hauled and even though the keel was twisted and had to be replaced, the keel sump was undamaged. That’s GREAT news and gives some confidence to the design once the keel sump mods are done. Mars Metal in Canada made a replacement fin keel (9-inches more draft) and all was well.
This was one of the last two 322’s made and the original owner still owns and loves her.
Here are his comments from 15-years ago
If the clock could be turned back, would owner buy again?
Yes. (and in 2014 he still owns her)
This was the first American-built vessel that featured a contemporary interior that was the equal to the French-built boats. We owned an Oday 25' with the typical interior of most American sailboats which meant that even the 35' Oday of the time hardly seem to offer more usable space.
My only carps are the undersized primary winches, the too-small 16hp Yanmar aux., and the poorly attached bolted-on wing keel.
Gear that's been added:
1. Jib sheet turning blocks. Should have been included because without them, it is difficult to control the sheets on tacks in most winds.
2. Replaced main track with adjustable line-controlled cars.
3. Added additional jib blocks to jib tracks for better sheet handling.
4. Mounted large blocks in cockpit rail area for spinnaker sheets.
Structural or complex improvements:
Completely reconstructed the keel bolt-on system by replacing the individual washer-like backing plates with a single large plate shaped to the bilge dimensions with individually drilled holes for each keel bolt. Keel now supported by a larger surface than offered by separate backing rings. Also faired the keel into the keel stump for additional strength and streamlining. Added cross-brace to bilge area for more rigidity. Also added more layers of fiberglass.
The boat's best features:
We refer to ours as the biggest little boat ever because of the clever management of interior space. Even today, 12 years later, the salon is equal to new and larger boats. (of course it’s now 24-years)
The furling main is also a big plus (once we finally got it to work properly!) and has added to the longevity of the sail. Both the main and the genoa are the original Neil Pride sails that came with the yacht. They have experienced seven years of charter boat use both in the Chesapeake and the Jersey coast and are still in good shape.
The little Yanmar still sports its original fan belt and hoses, etc., after nearly 2000 hours and zero maintenance.
Problem areas in terms of design, materials, maintenance, etc.:
As noted above, the keel and the furling main. The main furler required nearly 10 years to finally get it to work to my satisfaction.
Sailing characteristics:
Heavy weather helm. The shorter main mast doesn't permit a larger area sail because of the Isomat behind-the-mast furling system. Additionally, the mainsail itself has to be triangular (no roach) with no battens and a loose foot. The 140 genoa is too large for a vessel this size and should really be no more than 120. For all this, the 322 still points surprisingly well and sails even better in a still beam wind because of the ability to shape the loose foot.
Motoring characteristics:
Because of the smallish diesel, the yacht barely holds its own in strong currents or for long distance motoring. The 18hp rating is not borne out by the 16hp plate on the engine itself. With a three-bladed adjustable feathering prop the engine performs better.
Liveability: Great. The wide-ish beam and European styled interior offer lots of room and space.
The owner has kindly sent picture’s that show the modification and additional cross beam.
Here is his email response to me:
Hi Gary,
This year happens to be the 20th anniversary of our near disaster when the wing keel ripped through the hull.
Looking for the drawing of the replacement support plate I found other documents, invoices, etc., in other words nearly everything but the drawing. I remember it was shaped to the area of the four keel bolts and nuts.
I couldn't locate any response from the Hunt company but I still recall their reaction to my criticism of the keel support design. Vogel Marina, at the time in Fairlee Creek, recommended the additional glassed layers and the cross member support. I insisted on the full metal plate to replace the “washer” style backing plates on each individual bolt. Hunt’s, later, vehemently defended their system. Honestly, I can’t recall if I communicated with them or if they replied to my comments on the Internet.
I attached 3 photos. One is from a Polaroid taken by Vogel in 1994 after the completed work and the similar one was taken recently with my iPhone. The third offers a poor glimpse of the full backing plate just below the water in the bilge.
Hope this helps.
************************************************************************************************************************
I’m going to revert to remarks I made in the post “322 Keel Retention” from about 4-weeks ago. I think (but can’t) confirm, that the 322’s built after the Leveraged Buyout may have used a different layup schedule in the keel sump than earlier boats that probably followed the C. Raymond Hunt design.
My keel sump bottom is 3/4 inch so I feel reasonably comfortable. I am going to make the full plate instead of individual plates at each bolt. I’ll also add the additional cross member.
I think the extra layers of glass aren't beyond the skills of the average owner and that should keep these great boats going for other 30-years. I agree with everything that is in the Boat Review above. This is a fabulous boat. If you aren't out in big water, it’s probably a matter of keeping the keel bolts properly torqued (not over torqued). I bought a torque wrench and sockets so that’s now part of twice a year check.
Thanks to GergL for his help and advise.
AS ALWAYS – I seek your input, ideas and comments.
Gary
The Tanquary
Freeport, Bahamas
For the 322 this story becomes more positive as it goes on.
I found an owner review (below) that was done about 15-years ago. With the help of Google, I was able to track down the owner and called him.
In 1994, he was sailing down the Chesapeake when the bilge pump couldn't keep up with the inflow of water. The keel had partially ripped out and was held mainly by the aft keel bolt. A Mayday call was made and the Coast Guard responded and staunched the flow by stuffing horsehair into the voids. The boat limped to the Repair Yard and a fix was made as outlined later.
The owner said when the boat was out of the water, he could turn the keel bolt nuts by hand.
After the modification, years passed, and when under full power, the hydrokeel slams a concrete underwater obstruction that brought the boat to a shuddering halt. The boat was hauled and even though the keel was twisted and had to be replaced, the keel sump was undamaged. That’s GREAT news and gives some confidence to the design once the keel sump mods are done. Mars Metal in Canada made a replacement fin keel (9-inches more draft) and all was well.
This was one of the last two 322’s made and the original owner still owns and loves her.
Here are his comments from 15-years ago
If the clock could be turned back, would owner buy again?
Yes. (and in 2014 he still owns her)
This was the first American-built vessel that featured a contemporary interior that was the equal to the French-built boats. We owned an Oday 25' with the typical interior of most American sailboats which meant that even the 35' Oday of the time hardly seem to offer more usable space.
My only carps are the undersized primary winches, the too-small 16hp Yanmar aux., and the poorly attached bolted-on wing keel.
Gear that's been added:
1. Jib sheet turning blocks. Should have been included because without them, it is difficult to control the sheets on tacks in most winds.
2. Replaced main track with adjustable line-controlled cars.
3. Added additional jib blocks to jib tracks for better sheet handling.
4. Mounted large blocks in cockpit rail area for spinnaker sheets.
Structural or complex improvements:
Completely reconstructed the keel bolt-on system by replacing the individual washer-like backing plates with a single large plate shaped to the bilge dimensions with individually drilled holes for each keel bolt. Keel now supported by a larger surface than offered by separate backing rings. Also faired the keel into the keel stump for additional strength and streamlining. Added cross-brace to bilge area for more rigidity. Also added more layers of fiberglass.
The boat's best features:
We refer to ours as the biggest little boat ever because of the clever management of interior space. Even today, 12 years later, the salon is equal to new and larger boats. (of course it’s now 24-years)
The furling main is also a big plus (once we finally got it to work properly!) and has added to the longevity of the sail. Both the main and the genoa are the original Neil Pride sails that came with the yacht. They have experienced seven years of charter boat use both in the Chesapeake and the Jersey coast and are still in good shape.
The little Yanmar still sports its original fan belt and hoses, etc., after nearly 2000 hours and zero maintenance.
Problem areas in terms of design, materials, maintenance, etc.:
As noted above, the keel and the furling main. The main furler required nearly 10 years to finally get it to work to my satisfaction.
Sailing characteristics:
Heavy weather helm. The shorter main mast doesn't permit a larger area sail because of the Isomat behind-the-mast furling system. Additionally, the mainsail itself has to be triangular (no roach) with no battens and a loose foot. The 140 genoa is too large for a vessel this size and should really be no more than 120. For all this, the 322 still points surprisingly well and sails even better in a still beam wind because of the ability to shape the loose foot.
Motoring characteristics:
Because of the smallish diesel, the yacht barely holds its own in strong currents or for long distance motoring. The 18hp rating is not borne out by the 16hp plate on the engine itself. With a three-bladed adjustable feathering prop the engine performs better.
Liveability: Great. The wide-ish beam and European styled interior offer lots of room and space.
The owner has kindly sent picture’s that show the modification and additional cross beam.
Here is his email response to me:
Hi Gary,
This year happens to be the 20th anniversary of our near disaster when the wing keel ripped through the hull.
Looking for the drawing of the replacement support plate I found other documents, invoices, etc., in other words nearly everything but the drawing. I remember it was shaped to the area of the four keel bolts and nuts.
I couldn't locate any response from the Hunt company but I still recall their reaction to my criticism of the keel support design. Vogel Marina, at the time in Fairlee Creek, recommended the additional glassed layers and the cross member support. I insisted on the full metal plate to replace the “washer” style backing plates on each individual bolt. Hunt’s, later, vehemently defended their system. Honestly, I can’t recall if I communicated with them or if they replied to my comments on the Internet.
I attached 3 photos. One is from a Polaroid taken by Vogel in 1994 after the completed work and the similar one was taken recently with my iPhone. The third offers a poor glimpse of the full backing plate just below the water in the bilge.
Hope this helps.
************************************************************************************************************************
I’m going to revert to remarks I made in the post “322 Keel Retention” from about 4-weeks ago. I think (but can’t) confirm, that the 322’s built after the Leveraged Buyout may have used a different layup schedule in the keel sump than earlier boats that probably followed the C. Raymond Hunt design.
My keel sump bottom is 3/4 inch so I feel reasonably comfortable. I am going to make the full plate instead of individual plates at each bolt. I’ll also add the additional cross member.
I think the extra layers of glass aren't beyond the skills of the average owner and that should keep these great boats going for other 30-years. I agree with everything that is in the Boat Review above. This is a fabulous boat. If you aren't out in big water, it’s probably a matter of keeping the keel bolts properly torqued (not over torqued). I bought a torque wrench and sockets so that’s now part of twice a year check.
Thanks to GergL for his help and advise.
AS ALWAYS – I seek your input, ideas and comments.
Gary
The Tanquary
Freeport, Bahamas
