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FTZ crimp settings for #4 power lug

Discussion in 'Musings With Maine Sail' started by marchem, Feb 6, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. marchem

    marchem

    Joined Nov 16, 2012
    612 posts, 59 likes
    Catalina 310, 2000, #31
    US Santa Cruz
    I've been using an FTZ 94284 crimping tool for the battery wiring upgrade project I'm in the middle of. It's been working well, until I tried making some crimps on #4 wire yesterday. They are power lugs, with "J" and "H" and gray markings on the lug. The table on the FTZ tool says:
    [​IMG]
    The color shown there is green, but it's definitely gray on the lug. Oddly, that's also the same die settings and color as a #6 terminal. When I crimp with the J and H the lug pulls off easily. So I switched to K K and didn't fully close the crimper. I know that's less than ideal, but not sure what else to do. I rechecked the calibration of the tool and it's good (16"). Even more odd is that I've used it in the past for #4 power lugs and it worked fine. So either the lugs are completely different (they are not flared starter lugs), or the K K dies have shifted, or I've lost it completely.

    Any thoughts about what happened, or what I should do?
     


  2. Maine Sail

    Maine Sail Moderator

    Joined Feb 6, 1998
    10,655 posts, 488 likes
    Canadian Sailcraft 36T
    US Casco Bay, ME
    Who's power lugs are you using? Are they FTZ branded lugs from a reputable FTZ supplier???

    If you go down a size in dies partially crimp to just where a "flag" is starting to form then rotate 90 degrees and partially crimp again. Repeat until you are satisfied and you may even be able to get full closure without any flagging.

    Terminals vary from source to source as a lot of companies are importing from China these days. Frustrating but true...
     


  3. marchem

    marchem

    Joined Nov 16, 2012
    612 posts, 59 likes
    Catalina 310, 2000, #31
    US Santa Cruz
    I thought I bought all of my lugs (FTZ) from GenuineDealz, but it was a while ago and maybe I ordered more from some place else. Do they actually say FTZ on the lugs?
     


  4. marchem

    marchem

    Joined Nov 16, 2012
    612 posts, 59 likes
    Catalina 310, 2000, #31
    US Santa Cruz
    BTW, thanks for all the information and tutorials you've provided. I've learned so much from them. You and the others on these forums are an incredible resource!!
     


  5. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    1,758 posts, 175 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk II
    US Barnegat, NJ
    @marchem
    How did you make with your crimper?
    I just bought the FTZ 98284 as well. All my lugs came from genuinedealz and were listed as FTZ.
    I'm using lugs for 1/0 wire. I calibrated the crimper per instructions, then tried crimping some lugs. I could barely close the crimper and the lugs came out mangled.
    Each time I did this I checked the crimper calibration and found the handles closer together than I set them.
    After several tries I went to the next size small setting 1 AWG setting. This made a much better looking crimp and when I checked the calibration, it was at the same handle width before I made the crimps.

    My crimps for 6AWG came out looking good.

    Correction. I went to the 2/0 AWG die set, not the 1 AWG. After looking at them again, I don't think they are tight enough.

    Thought I would share.
     


    Last edited: Feb 9, 2018
  6. Maine Sail

    Maine Sail Moderator

    Joined Feb 6, 1998
    10,655 posts, 488 likes
    Canadian Sailcraft 36T
    US Casco Bay, ME

    Power lugs or starter lugs? What die settings?
     


  7. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    1,758 posts, 175 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk II
    US Barnegat, NJ
    Hey Maine, I bought Heavy Duty Cable Lug Tinned Copper 1/0 AWG Gauge Stud Size 5/16"
    When choosing the lugs I compared genuinedealz to SBO. Both listed their heavy duty lugs as FTZ. I went with denuinedealz because I could order by each instead of bags of 10.

    Today I checked to be able to give you the correct description and all the heavy duty 1/0 lugs are now listed as NSPA.

    If thats the problem I will giving genuinedealz a call, return what they sent me and reorder from SBO.
     


  8. Maine Sail

    Maine Sail Moderator

    Joined Feb 6, 1998
    10,655 posts, 488 likes
    Canadian Sailcraft 36T
    US Casco Bay, ME
    Are these flared stater lugs or lugs with color codes? Heavy Duty 1/0 "Power lugs" should use the dies E & A. 1/0 flared Starter Lugs use dies H & H..
     


  9. marchem

    marchem

    Joined Nov 16, 2012
    612 posts, 59 likes
    Catalina 310, 2000, #31
    US Santa Cruz
    I think I’ve discovered that sometimes the dies don’t come together smoothly, and the crimp ends up offset and looking over crimped. If I hold the adjusting bolt in tight when first closing them it seems to work fine. I’ve got 10 1/0 heavy duty crimps to make tomorrow to finish this project. Boy will I be glad when it’s done!
     


  10. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    1,758 posts, 175 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk II
    US Barnegat, NJ
    I'm using the heavy duty 1/0 power lugs with the E & A dies. The dies for 2/0 lugs worked better but I don't think they were tight enough so I spent some time on the phone.
    I called genuinedealz and asked who made the lugs they were selling. They switched over to NSPA lugs and feel they are just as good of quality. They admitted they were behind on updating their website to show NSPA as the manufacturer and offered to take them back.
    I tried calling FTZ Industries. They blamed it on the non FTZ lugs and said to try different die settings. They asked where I purchased it and when I said Amazon they said it could be a knock off crimper.
    I spoke with Maine Sail who gave me some tips on how to make it all work. He also suggested I try calling the seller on Amazon who he thought was legit.
    I did but the person I talked to didn't want to confirm the crimper was made by FTZ, just hinted it was. Their suggestion was to return it via Amazon and they would inspect it to see if it was defective because it should crimp the lugs fine. They would let me know what they find.
    After all this I considered Maine's question from above.
    The crimper is going back to Amazon, the lugs are going back to genuinedealz and I ordered a new FTZ crimper and FTZ lugs from the SBO store, a known reputable supplier.

    With something like 30 lugs to crimp and with what I've invested in this project trying to do it right, I'm willing to try again to see if I can get better crimps.

    @marchem
    Almost done? Any pics?
     


  11. marchem

    marchem

    Joined Nov 16, 2012
    612 posts, 59 likes
    Catalina 310, 2000, #31
    US Santa Cruz
    Almost done. Here’s a pic from earlier today. Kinda crowded in there, so it’s messier than I would like.
    A3075FCC-B811-424F-81DE-6BAD8953D215.jpeg
     


  12. Ward H

    Ward H

    Joined Nov 7, 2011
    1,758 posts, 175 likes
    Catalina 30 Mk II
    US Barnegat, NJ
    Looking good! Nicely done on marking all the wires.
    I too am trying to cram a lot into a small space. Without a lot of experience to know the tricks and things like how tight can 1/0 wire bend to make a 90 deg connection, it is hard to get it as neat as some do.
     


  13. LeslieTroyer

    LeslieTroyer

    Joined May 20, 2016
    1,609 posts, 533 likes
    Catalina 36 MK1
    US Everett, WA
    You probably should have a fuse on your yellow wire from +12 buss bar to shunt (smaller than the mrbf)

    Mahalo
     


  14. marchem

    marchem

    Joined Nov 16, 2012
    612 posts, 59 likes
    Catalina 310, 2000, #31
    US Santa Cruz
    Agreed! A mix of origami and jig saw puzzle! I learned to wait to tighten anything until all the wires are run, because I kept moving them to different studs on the bus bar.

    Maine Sail taught me the labeling technique. It’s my wife’s job on this project. She’s being very patient with my obsession.
     


  15. marchem

    marchem

    Joined Nov 16, 2012
    612 posts, 59 likes
    Catalina 310, 2000, #31
    US Santa Cruz
    It’s there, hidden under the “From #2” cable. I know yellow isn’t the best color for it, but that’s the ATC fuse holder I had.
     


  16. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    5,579 posts, 1,883 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Real nice job @marchem. I liked how you put the little yellow wire above the BIG red alternator wire.. Some error and put it underneath.
    It is a tight space and the fit and finish makes sense.
     


  17. marchem

    marchem

    Joined Nov 16, 2012
    612 posts, 59 likes
    Catalina 310, 2000, #31
    US Santa Cruz
    I’ve learned so much from all the people here, and on the C310 forum. Their willingness to share and help is greatly appreciated.
     


  18. LeslieTroyer

    LeslieTroyer

    Joined May 20, 2016
    1,609 posts, 533 likes
    Catalina 36 MK1
    US Everett, WA
    Ok I see the top retainer. Can you get at it without pulling the mrbf?? You can use red tape on the yellow wire.

    Looks nice!!
     


  19. marchem

    marchem

    Joined Nov 16, 2012
    612 posts, 59 likes
    Catalina 310, 2000, #31
    US Santa Cruz
    Good ideas. I will reroute the wire. Hopefully never have to replace the fuse, but worth making it easier to do.
     


  20. marchem

    marchem

    Joined Nov 16, 2012
    612 posts, 59 likes
    Catalina 310, 2000, #31
    US Santa Cruz
    Are there size specs for the lugs? It seems like it would be easy to measure the ID and OD of what I’ve got and see if they are proper, or not?
     



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