Experience with 4D Batteries

[Nodak7]

This is a new boat to me and I have never owned one with 4D Batteries (2) before. What can be expected regarding usual life? The two I have were replaced in 2008 by the previous owner. The boat arrived with both the batteries completely exhausted. They are taking a charge but seem unable to maintain a charge for longer than 24 hours. Am I SOL and going to have to purchase replacement for them? Is three years a normal life expectancy?

 

[Rich Stidger]

IMO three years is normal only if the batteries were abused or neglected. I presume that these are wet cell flooded type batteries. The fact that you received the boat with the batteries uncharged is not a good sign.

Unless you were told that the batteries were in need of replacement, I would approach the PO with a request that he replace them.

Regarding replacements, if it were me, I would replace with four golf cart batteries instead of the two 4D's. The four golf cart batteries will have the same capacity as the two 4Ds but at 70# each they can be handled by mere mortals instead of super humans.

 

[seadaddler]

Ditto

I just replaced my 4D's with 4 6 volt T-105 and so far I am loving them so much better than the 4D's for sure and much better to move around.
Nick

 

[Rick D]

Unlike Rich, who has nice angels on his boat, I only average four years on my batteries. It may be that they are simply banged more often since they are on duty year-round. Whatever, your batteries were on the backside of life. I also have four golf carts and have been able to get them (Sam's Club) at far less cost than 4D's. Good luck!

 

[seadaddler]

No Luck

I had to replace one of my 4D's in the second season but under warranty was less $$$$ but not free,I have never been happy with the 4D's and so big and heavy and take up room and hard to move around.
The 4 T-105 6 volt seem to work so much better and don't need charging as much even after we use our inverter for making coffee and all our new laptop and my wifes new Droid which does use alot of power and so we used our batteries alot on our last 23 day cruise with PGSC up to Tarpon Springs back in april.
I did move my 4D's the second year of my 2007 H-36 and they were a killer to move but now that I have 4 -6volt batteries they fit so much better and take less room than the 4D's,they are so much better to install in the boat.
Nick

 

[Brian L.20665]

On our H41 2005, now on 7th season with original 4Ds x2 installed on the boat by dealer when boat was new. They are AGMs which we swapped in to replace the factory supplied wet cells. From Deka, see http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=468

I baby the batteries, never discharging below 50% capacity. And I occasionally top off over the winter while boat is in storage.

 

[Lee Coller]

I replaced my two 4d Gels with two 8D AGMs when the gels were five years old. They still had some life in them but I wasn't sure how much as they'd recently had a couple of complete discharges due power cord problems (I keep my fridge and freezer running in the slip) and I knew they had been abused when in the position of the dealer.
Those of you complaining about the weight of 4Ds should check out 8Ds - 160lb each.

 

[Nodak7]

It seems that the previous owner never really took it out very often so the batteries were always charged or charging. That is the reverse of what we do. We will go out for days. I dread taking the 4D's out because they look like they weigh a ton. Additionally when we winter the batteries are removed so the size is an issue for me. The 4 T105's sound attractive. Do they have similar AH's?

 

[Don Lucas]

. The 4 T105's sound attractive. Do they have similar AH's?

Better AHs. I'm currently going though the same thing on my 410. 1 dead 4D and the other of unknown age. I'm about ready to go the T105 or similar route. Just got to check to see if the height is going to be OK for the boxes.

 

[Nodak7]

Went to the Battery Store here to check and it turns out that according to their calculations 4 T-105's have a total of 462 AH's vs 2 4D's with 780 AH's. Besides that the Deep Cycle 4D's were $217 each (Total $434)) vs the T-105's at $122 each (Total $488). It looks like I will be replacing the batteries with 4D's both for cost and AH's.

 

[Maine Sail]

Went to the Battery Store here to check and it turns out that according to their calculations 4 T-105's have a total of 462 AH's vs 2 4D's with 780 AH's. Besides that the Deep Cycle 4D's were $217 each (Total $434)) vs the T-105's at $122 each (Total $488). It looks like I will be replacing the batteries with 4D's both for cost and AH's.

I suspect your battery store guy needs to check his math. There is no such thing as a 390 Ah 4D. If you know of one please post it!!

T105's are 225Ah each. 4 total T105's in series/parallel is a 450Ah bank.

Most flooded 4D's are about 135 - 160Ah's. The numbers he is quoting you on the 4D's is most likely reserve capacity not Ah.. For example the West Marine/Deka 4D's are 135Ah's each for a total bank of just 270Ah.. The Exide Nautilus Gold 4D is 160Ah or 320Ah total bank..

If you want to exceed 200 Ah's in a 4D you'd need some Lifeline batteries but the price is going to be over $1000.00 for two batteries.

4D's will also have significantly thinner plates than a T105 which almost always results in shorter expected life cycles..

Also be VERY, VERY careful with 4 & 8D's as there are very few companies making a true "deep cycle" 4D or 8D. They are most often a hybrid starting/deep cycle battery that is not a true deep cycle.

 

[Nodak7]

I think you are right about the battery guys math but after further review I believe the 4D's are the way to go. Here is why. I found the table below on the net and it gives the general AH ratings per battery type.

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

Group 27 85-105 Amp hours 12 volts
Group 31 95-125 Amp hours 12 volts
4-D 180-215 Amp hours 12 volts
8-D 225-255 Amp hours 12 volts
T-105 180 to 225 Amp hours 6 volts

As you can see if I have 2 4D's I have a range of 360-430AH's and 4 T-105's have a range of 360-450AH's. You are correct there are more AH's at the upper end by 20 for the T-105's but the extra cost of the batteries and of the cables (not to say anything of a x2 for potential defective batteries) makes the 4D's seem more attractive.


To address your other statement about true Deep Cycle (DC) batteries. The Interstate SRM-4D's are advertised as DC Batteries so I will have to check whether they are "true" DC Batteries or not. I appreciate your bringing that part up.

Not withstanding any of this I appreciate your input and help with this. It made me look much deeper than the initial math which made it sound much better than what it was. If it turns out to be a bad decision I will let you know.

 

[kloudie1]

Quick note to ponder.. bad batts are usually one bad cell... the number of cells is the same for the 4D 8D, (6) or two T105's.(3 each for 6). so the argument of more batteries to go south is not valid.. it may be better to have the T105's because you could change one battery at a lower cost to get rid of one bad cell.. Just something to ponder..

 

[seadaddler]

Golf cart

I found out shopping around for batteries that the Golf Cart shops seem to beat the Marine supply prices,also for me the 6 volt battery fit much better and when it was time to test them they did not break my back which is already in bad shape,I needed 2 friends to help me get them out.
The 6 volt just easier to deal with and new plastic boxes were easy to get at good price.
Nick

 

[Marc14857]

6 Volt Batteries

Beginning of this season I replaced my (2) 4Ds with (4) 6 Volt "Crown" golf cart batteries. The Crowns were more competatively priced (~ $115.00 each) than the Trojans and seem to be working very well and were certainly easier on my back. The original 4 Ds lasted about 4 years. Need to be a little carefull about the clearance that you have for height as the 6 Volts are a little taller. They avarage about 10.75 inches in height though this varies by manufacturer. I had about 1/4 to spare on my H44.

 

[seadaddler]

My 4D's

My 4D's let me know when they would constantly need charging and than lots of gasing and never stop charging.
Side to side was the big difference for me with them fitting and the 4D's side to side so much more space needed that I had to put them front to back and took up so much space.
Nick

 

[Jim Seamans]

Hey Nick

Where did you install the golf cart batteries????

I'm currently down for the next ten days. Pulled the mixing elbow and found it needed to be replaced. Found cracks... Waiting on replacement parts...

 

[Nodak7]

Good point!

Quick note to ponder.. bad batts are usually one bad cell... the number of cells is the same for the 4D 8D, (6) or two T105's.(3 each for 6). so the argument of more batteries to go south is not valid.. it may be better to have the T105's because you could change one battery at a lower cost to get rid of one bad cell.. Just something to ponder..

Good point! Thanks I think I am learning more about batteries than I ever thought I cared too!

 

[kloudie1]

Good luck with 'em, Nodak7.. Those big old batts will do fine.. We'll be interested in your comments..
My boat had T105's but when the fridge packed it in, I replaced them with a couple of 31's since I don't have large loads.. and I don't like to carry "extra" weight..
Smooth Sailing !

 

[Lee Coller]

I think you are right about the battery guys math but after further review I believe the 4D's are the way to go. Here is why. I found the table below on the net and it gives the general AH ratings per battery type.

http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

Group 27 85-105 Amp hours 12 volts
Group 31 95-125 Amp hours 12 volts
4-D 180-215 Amp hours 12 volts
8-D 225-255 Amp hours 12 volts
T-105 180 to 225 Amp hours 6 volts

As you can see if I have 2 4D's I have a range of 360-430AH's and 4 T-105's have a range of 360-450AH's. You are correct there are more AH's at the upper end by 20 for the T-105's but the extra cost of the batteries and of the cables (not to say anything of a x2 for potential defective batteries) makes the 4D's seem more attractive.

That's not right, the first four categories you have up there are physical battery sizes. Actual capacity is going to depend on battery brand and type.

The last "category" you listed is T-105, which refers to a specific battery (Trojan Golf Cart), its amp-hour rating is 225.

A Lifeline GPL-4D (AGM) battery has a capacity of 210AH, you'll pay in excess of $600 for that. A T-105 runs about $140, since it takes two for a 12 volt system, two of those is $280.

I've never seen a 215AH 4D battery advertised.