hull integrity is safety rule number one. stopping the vessel is number two. it appears they failed at both these rules. is it not like 99% of all accidents with boats happen while trying to enter a harbor.
Boat Lost Entering Harbor
- Thread starter Rick D
- Start date
It's a race boat. 24' Martin 242. They sail amazingly well. Usually. Many don't sail with a kicker. If they do, it's small and light and stored. Same with the anchor. I'd bet they didn't even think about the anchor; I doubt its ever been damp. Someone earlier in the thread said they'd taken a knock down earlier which might explain the main down and jib fouled. The good news out of all this is that they had their PFDs on and they missed the hard spots on the pier when they got tossed. Whew!
Monday morning quarterbacking...
I would have thought the skipper should have raised the main and sailed away from the harbor.. some folks have wondered why they got so close to the pier... IIRC it's about 700 from the breakwater to the pier... it's really close.. (I learned to sail out of King Harbor)
Fouled jib that close to the pier? Disaster.... And, it looked like it was blowing like stink... Tough for a crew used to socal light stuff.
I would have thought the skipper should have raised the main and sailed away from the harbor.. some folks have wondered why they got so close to the pier... IIRC it's about 700 from the breakwater to the pier... it's really close.. (I learned to sail out of King Harbor)
Fouled jib that close to the pier? Disaster.... And, it looked like it was blowing like stink... Tough for a crew used to socal light stuff.
I'm with thinwater when in this type of trouble stay away from the lee shore. Only bad things can happen.
Like so many bad events it is often not the big thing, it is the series of little things. Report is that they were racing.
Well like many racers you make the boat light as possible. All excess ropes and weight is removed.
It looks that things started to break on the boat and the skipper tried to get home but ran out of options.
Thankfully all crew ended up safely on shore.
It is the little things that add up and if your not lucky can reach out an grab you.
I see the police boat got to the scene in time to see the boat destroyed by the pier.
That was an angry sea.
Like so many bad events it is often not the big thing, it is the series of little things. Report is that they were racing.
Well like many racers you make the boat light as possible. All excess ropes and weight is removed.
(I raced a thousand times we do not need a bunch of extra sheets. These ones on the sail are just fine.)
When you race every week you finish the event and head for the slip, quick tie your craft and head for the Committee room for a cold brew, stories and a ribbon or trophy.(Sure wrap the halyard around the cleat on the mast. It's fine. We have been using it for the past 6 seasons. It is wire they are long lasting. We'll get around to inspecting the halyards next Friday before the big race. It's time for a brew. Great races everyone).
We have all heard the talk, been in a rush, ignored regular gear inspections. And what happens, take a boat out into an angry sea and expect it to work with out a worry. Sometimes the ignored, uninspected rigging/hardware give up and you are in a pickle.It looks that things started to break on the boat and the skipper tried to get home but ran out of options.
Thankfully all crew ended up safely on shore.
It is the little things that add up and if your not lucky can reach out an grab you.
I see the police boat got to the scene in time to see the boat destroyed by the pier.
That was an angry sea.
I'd agree with most of what JSS says, with the exception of it being an angry sea. It was an angry SHORE. Out at sea those were simple rollers.
Because I both race and cruise, I've observed that often very good race crews are NOT great seamen at all. They might be able to trim the crap out of that headsail, but not have any real idea how to act individually or as a team in an emergency. Or do the right thing in the run-up that would have prevented the emergency in the first place.
That situation looked very preventable. Glad all were OK and wearing PFDs. I assume with the conditions the RC had the Y flag up. Good call.
Because I both race and cruise, I've observed that often very good race crews are NOT great seamen at all. They might be able to trim the crap out of that headsail, but not have any real idea how to act individually or as a team in an emergency. Or do the right thing in the run-up that would have prevented the emergency in the first place.
That situation looked very preventable. Glad all were OK and wearing PFDs. I assume with the conditions the RC had the Y flag up. Good call.
It also appears lucky that the boat did not have lifelines. They way those guys were pitched out of the way, it looks as if lifelines could have caused far more serious injuries.
That's what I had to explain to the admiral. The video frightened her. I even saw it played on Fox news while I was at the gym Friday. Non-sailor reactions were "why were they out on a day like that".
Pilots are trained to "keep flying the plane", sailors to "keep sailing the boat". I watched the entire horrific long version and it appeared that the crew quit trying to sail the boat. No working sail, no propulsion, it was like they were watching the inevitable unfold. Very strange.
My reaction as well, Gunni. It looked like nothing worked and without a plan they appeared to freeze. Then the guy goes sailing in the air towards the pier or between the pier.
My angry sea comment was not about not sailing in the conditions. It was they did not look prepared to sail in those conditions.
Some of us prepare too much, some to little. I hope I prepare enough to deal with the conditions I find.
My angry sea comment was not about not sailing in the conditions. It was they did not look prepared to sail in those conditions.
Some of us prepare too much, some to little. I hope I prepare enough to deal with the conditions I find.
Yea. The age-old contact between boat and mariner:
The boat protects the mariner from the sea. The mariner protect the boat from the shore.
Someone at work sent me this and asked if I had seen it ... I had not. I'd been busy watching the Congressional Cup near our place in Long Beach - no gaffes like that during the match racing.
Thursday was so incredibly windy, I do question the decision to head out in wind like that. Toward the end of the day it was in the 40 knot range ... it was forecast as such.
Hindsight being 20/20 and all ... personally I would have (and indeed, did) opted to stay in the marina that day. The evening before was beautiful, I enjoyed a very light wind sunset cruise on the way home from the office.
Thursday was so incredibly windy, I do question the decision to head out in wind like that. Toward the end of the day it was in the 40 knot range ... it was forecast as such.
Hindsight being 20/20 and all ... personally I would have (and indeed, did) opted to stay in the marina that day. The evening before was beautiful, I enjoyed a very light wind sunset cruise on the way home from the office.
Police boat got there just a little too late. Looks like he got his headsail untangled and full. Unfortunately no maneuvering room. I also saw he had his tiller hard to port which looks like it was acting as a brake. Just my observation. Wonder if he had a radio?
It looks like the headsail was out and full near the end but the sheets were in the water and the guy at the bow was trying to hold on to the clew end of the sheets. There was no way that he could hold on tight and every time the helmsman tried to turn up wind to claw away from the pier, the sail flogged and knocked them back off the wind. They had no control of the jib sheets so there was no controlling the boat. Turning the tiller hard over looked simply like a panic maneuver because he used up his little bit of sea room earlier and it was too late to jibe over to the other side by that time.
i was taught to stop the boat when all was overwhelming. heave too or a sea anchor in blue water, ground tackle near shore. stopping a vessel has saved my life many times.
having only a headsail up near a beach is very dangerous as the vessel will weather vane towards trouble. certainly had they been able to have had just a main up, they at least would of been weather vane ing away from trouble. also heading into the wind allows the crew to correct trouble while pressures are off the rig.
buried ground tackle on a race boat is dead weight. properly prepared ground tackle on any boat playing near shore is always wise even on a race boat of this size.
really, sailboats steer with their sails and trim with the rudder.
yeah, thats what i teach
having only a headsail up near a beach is very dangerous as the vessel will weather vane towards trouble. certainly had they been able to have had just a main up, they at least would of been weather vane ing away from trouble. also heading into the wind allows the crew to correct trouble while pressures are off the rig.
buried ground tackle on a race boat is dead weight. properly prepared ground tackle on any boat playing near shore is always wise even on a race boat of this size.
really, sailboats steer with their sails and trim with the rudder.
yeah, thats what i teach
the one vessel i do not carry an anchor on is my a scow. no place to stow it. no way to deploy it. But, that vessel never leaves the dock without a highly skilled crew. not a picnic boat
As in my original post in another thread, it looks from the early part of the video like they were doing a lot better heading parallel to shore or slightly out to sea (Opposite final heading) before they turned toward the harbor/pier.. It is obvious that they had a lot of mess going on with the sails.. probable failed main halyard, sheets tangled under the boat in front of the keel.. They'd have done better to continue in the almost due south direction and take some time to get under control (he said from the armchair quarterback position).
By the time this video starts (Richards long version) the only people in a position to save that boat and safeguard her crew, was the crew. They might as well have been alone and 100 miles off. What should have been a frantic effort to get a sail up and powered was instead a crew watching the fore deck guy fiddle with the jib sheets. I would love to hear the captain's after action report. The team dynamics on display would be a powerful learning tool. Real sorry they to have that happen on the beach in L.A. with dozens of video camera's rolling. Maybe have it be a lesson for improvement.
It's not evident what happened prior to the boat losing the power of her jib. If you look at the deduced path, it's likely the boat was doomed when she blew much past Mo (A) w/o making the turn; no way the boat with a crippled jib and makeshift sheeting would be able to come up sufficiently at that point. I think what we saw was likely "unfixable" by that time.
Last edited: