Battery Replacement Questions...

marchem · Dec 8, 2016

SailFysh said:
One more point... our usual usage is at shorepower with fridge running, and charger on because fridge is 12 volt.

Your situation and question sound just like ours, except we've still got flooded batteries.

I think 4 6V batteries will almost always make more sense than 2 12V, even if simply you wire them as two banks of 2. Doing that has the advantage that you don't have to modify the space, just add some additional wiring to get them in series (and hook up the charger correctly). Adding the 5th battery lets you put those two banks in parallel and get a large house bank, with the small 12V for starting if you drain the house. But you do have to find a spot for the 5th battery and maybe run new, longer cables. If you only spend a day or two away from the dock/charger the bigger house bank may not be worth it.

I don't know anything about the C-Charger, but if it's more than 5 years old I'd be tempted to buy a new smart charger at the same time. Nothing worse than buying new batteries and cooking them with a dumb charger.

rpwillia · Dec 8, 2016

Can't get much simpler. Use original cables, add 2 short black and 2 short red and you are set. I had this charger until it released its smoke two years ago. Replaced it with a ProMariner 63120 ProNauticP Series 1220P - 12 Volt, 20 Amp Battery Charger as recommended by Maine Sail.

Stu Jackson · Dec 9, 2016

SailFysh said:
Can someone send me a link and simple instructions for wiring the 4 6 volt batteries as house bank along with 1 starter battery?

Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6604.0.html

This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring: The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=137615

This is a newer primer for boat system wiring design with a thorough digram: Building a Good Foundation (October 2016)
http://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/building-the-dc-electrical-foundation.181929/#post-1332240

If you can run a sailboat you can figure these out.

If all you're doing is sitting around at the dock and doing day sails, don't bother with the golf carts and the reserve bank. But save your back and forget about 4D batteries. Get two 12V batteries and be done with it. Grp 31s come in up to 105 ah each. While not true deep cylces like golf carts,m they'd do. Just don't buy 'em at West Marine. Marina hoppers or stay at home keep plugged in folks need nothing more. If you're planning on going somewhere though, reconsider.

marchem · Dec 9, 2016

rpwillia said:
Can't get much simpler. Use original cables, add 2 short black and 2 short red and you are set. I had this charger until it released its smoke two years ago. Replaced it with a ProMariner 63120 ProNauticP Series 1220P - 12 Volt, 20 Amp Battery Charger as recommended by Maine Sail.

Ray, it looks like someone did some surgery on your seat to make it easier to get those batteries in/out! I also noticed that your batteries are not in the optimal orientation http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/flooded_battery_orientation

marchem · Dec 9, 2016

SailFysh said:
Thanks rpwillia! I was suffering from overthinking and reading too many posts. Woke up this morning with a fresh coffee and your post. I think I can follow that.
So your picture shows the 4 battery 6 volt as 1 house bank correct? No 5th starting battery? So you only use one of the switch positions on the 1/2/off/both selector?
Where is your charger mounted? Thanks

I'm pretty sure Ray has them wired as two banks, with two batteries in series for each bank.

I installed our new charger in the same place as the old one. Easy peasy if you can climb in there from the after berth (or garage as my wife calls it). Not sure there's any reason to put it any where else.

Stu Jackson · Dec 9, 2016

SailFysh said:
So you only use one of the switch positions on the 1/2/off/both selector?

Here's some more info:

OEM 1-2-B Switch Wiring History http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4949.msg30101.html#msg30101

The most misunderstood piece of boat gear ever. And it's so simple!!!

A new charger sounds reasonable, but why not do some more homework before you decide? For your use it could be just fine.

Many of us prefer to go off grid and thus require different systems.

These links come from here (I've contributed and participated here for many years)

Electrical Systems 101 http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5977.0.html

KZW · Dec 9, 2016

Stu's links are great and should be read.

The two group 31 batteries will be fine if you just do overnighters. If you go out for a few days, the golf cart batteries are hard to beat. The are easy to install. If I can do it anyone can. The hardest part was hauling the 4D batteries out of the dock and off the boat. Don't do that alone!
I have four Duracell 6V true deep discharge golf cart batteries. Sam's club was by far the lowest cost when I bought them. There is a year old post on how I did it, but Rpwilla's post above is very close to my installation. Yes, the batteries should be oriented so the individual cells run fore/aft, but they fit better as shown in the picture. Keep the water topped off. Two golf cart batteries in series replace a single 4D battery and you will have more Amp-hours available. If memory serves , it went from 175 to 215. You wire two batteries in series to make 12 Volts, then connect to the bank 1 wires. You connect the other two in series to make 12 volts then connect to the bank 2 wires. If you add a small starting battery, you wire it to one of the bank wires. Connect the negative terminals of the two golf cart battery banks together and connect the positive (12 V) terminals together. The four will then be a single bank of 430 mph capacity that you connect to the other bank wires. This will be the house bank. To wire mine, I installed the batteries, measured the distances between the battery posts, went to West Marine and built up the connecting cables with the help of the folks in the store, all the wire, post connectors, and heat shrink are right there, then returned to the boat and connected it all up.
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The real important part here is the computer charger. That is a MUST do. Be sure to connect the temperature sensor wire that will shut the charger down if things get warm. If you are at a marina and plug into shore power all the time like me, then a 20 Amp charger is quite adequate.

Connect the charger to the golf cart house bank. Rely on the engine alternator to charge the starter battery. When you shut down the engine, use the battery switch to go to the house bank. Before starting the engine, use the batter switch to go back to the starting battery.

marchem · Dec 9, 2016

SailFysh said:
I am thinking this might be the way to go... we day sail, dock sit, and take an occasional overnighter... sounds like 2 new group 31 batterys and keeping my 20 amp C-Charger might be easiest and plenty appropriate for our use.
I need to check to see how much our fridge drains the batts. It is the most important piece of sailing equipment on board...

That cold beer/wine is critical, and one of the many reasons we love the C310 so much! Depending on how involved you want to make your system, and how much info you want to get from it, you could consider a battery monitor, http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_monitor, or the Balmer SmartGuage, http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/smart_gauge. I'm a technical geek, so I installed both.

marchem · Dec 9, 2016

Stu's postings on the C34 site and the information on Maine Sail's site are incredibly useful. Very well written, with detailed and understandable explanations. Plus both of them are quite personable and have always answered my questions, even the stupid ones!

Stu Jackson · Dec 9, 2016

SailFysh said:
I need to check to see how much our fridge drains the batts.

SaifF, this is about the easiest thing known to mankind: most, I say most, air cooled boat fridge systems use 5A when running, and when the box has been cooled of run 50% of the time, so in 24 hours you use 60ah.

Thanks, Rob, always glad to help.

valcour · Dec 9, 2016

Recommend ditching the Charles charger. Mine cooked all my batteries recently while I was away on a work trip for a few weeks. I replaced it with a truecharge 2, 40 amp model, with 4 each 6V batts as in series/parallel as house and one group 24 for reserve. If you decide to spend more time on the hook at some time in the future, this is a great setup, but nothing wrong with the group 31s if you have shore power available often.

Gene Neill · Dec 10, 2016

Yeah, thanks for nuthin, @Maine Sail, now I know Albin Marin oriented my batteries the wrong way!

Since they're located down in the keel, there's no fixing it. Guess I'll have to use gel or AGM in the future.

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