Atalntic crossing in 28 MKII

[cd30ketch]

My friend would like for me to help him sail his Catalina 28 MKII across the Atlantic to the Mediterranean where He plans to leave the boat at his second home. I want to learn all I can about this boat and its capabilities. Have any of you taken a 28 on a crossing? If it is not a safe boat for such a trip can it be made safe? I know people have made crossings in a lot smaller boats but I just want all the information I can get to make a rational decision as to if I want to risk it.
Is there an optimal time of year as far as weather is concerned? Is there an optiomal route to take? How would we try to find a flotilla to sail with? Are there any sites dedicated to hooking people up for passages?
I did a lot of looking around the net when I was looking for my boat and did not see a lot of references about Catalinas being suited for ocean crossings. They seam like fine boats but I know there is difference’s between boats and their purposes.
Thanks
Kevin

 

[Ross]

This may be a good place to start a search.
http://www.latitude38.com/features/circumnav.html

 

[Allan R]

Skill & Experience

needs to be at the top of the list. People with good skill, experience & common sense have made it in lesser boats while people in tested bluewater cruisers with little to none (skill/experience) have not.

It's a serious undertaking that requires a lot of preperation.

Some more reading:

The Circumnavigation of the “Juggernaut

The Ultimate Catalina 27

 

[sailingdog]

I'd second what Allan R said.

For example, Webb Chiles made it 3/4 of the way or so around the world in a Drascombe Lugger, which is an 18' open sailing dinghy for all intents and purposes... while Ronnie Simpson, a recent news story sailor, barely made it 500 NM off shore in a Palmer Johnson Bounty II, which is 41' LOA or so.

One thing that is important to remember, while many have done an Atlantic crossing in boats smaller than the Catalina 28 Mk II, most of those boats were of a very, very different design than the Catalina. Tania Aebi's Varuna was a Contessa 26, which is a full-keel design—basically a Folkboat derivative. I know someone who's gone cross the Atlantic in his Dana 24. But the construction of these two boats is very different from that of a Catalina Mk II—which is much lighter, beamier and in many ways less robust.

Earlier this year, a young boy and his father did the reverse passage from Europe west to North America in two Tide 28s, but they were specifically modified to make that passage. I think the Catalina 28 Mk II might require some fairly serious modifications to make it safe for such a crossing.

For instance, does the boat have a full bridge deck, or just a companionway coaming? If the boat got pooped, how much water would end up down below? Does the boat have an easily accessible and functional emergency tiller system? Are the lines led aft so that a single person can easily raise/lower/reef the mainsail?

That said... it is a pretty serious trip for a Catalina 28 Mk II. Not to say it isn't possible, but he'd have to have very skilled crew, prep the boat very well, keep a very good eye on the weather and have a fair dose of luck to do it safely.

The Catalina 28 MkII, which is a fairly lightly built coastal cruiser, isn't really designed to make a passage of this type. It doesn't have the tankage, stowage or robust build that would generally be a good idea on a boat making such a passage. The spade rudder is a definite weak point as well.

It might be a better idea for him to sell his Catalina here, and then buy a boat over there.

As for best times, according to Cornell's World Cruising Routes, you should look at June or July to go from North America to the Med. You'd want to hop north along the US coast up to Brenton Reef off of Rhode Island, and then east from there. The trip is about 3100 NM... and possible intermediate landfalls are Nantucket, Vincent, Hoyo, Tarifa, and Carnero, stopping at Gibraltar and proceeding into the Med from there.

 

[bonaroo5698]

i have a lot of blue water experience and my opinion is....

if you have to ask the question, you probably would not be a good crew member for an atlantic crossing in a small craft. the big questions are not about the model of the boat, but about his boat in particular. examples: what nav equipment does he have and in what condition? charts and are they current? saftery equipment, personal and boat epirb & MOB crew locator? jacklines in good condition and correct safety harness & offshore lifejackets? lifeboat ? and when was it last inspected? what is the condition of rigging, thru-hulls and hull itself? what is the condition of the engine, drive shaft, transmission and prop? do either of you know how to troubleshoot the specific engine he has? how many "backup"parts does he plan to carry onboard? spare belts, lots of filters, tools, spare prop, etc?

what kind of communications devices does he have and IN WHAT CONDITION?

are you both in good health and good swimmers? does he have a comprehensive first aid kit on board?

what condition are his lifelines in? condition and sail inventory? does he have a drogue (not necessary, but handy in a big storm).

there are points in the trip where you will have to strap on some "brass balls".... do you both have what it takes mentally to weather an emergency (medical, storm, boat).

do you both have the ability to single-hand the boat if something should happen to the other person?

also, getting the boat prepped for a trip like this can be extremely expensive.... don't short-cut the important stuff, which is pretty much everything i have mentioned.

everyone embarking on a trip like that thinks of the adventure and excitement carries them out to sea. you are wise to ask advice before you attempt this sort of undertaking.

those are the thoughts i would like to add to those who have already given you their thoughtful advice.


good luck.

 

[Calif. Ted]

Is your friends boat insured ? and is his insurance company willing to insure for a crossing on a boat rated as a coastal cruiser by the builder or is he willing to risk it uninsured? I have a 270 and only carry coastal insurance good to 50 NM.
Yeah you could do it but I don't think it would be prudent.

 

[Hunter voyager]

The normal route from the USA is to Bermuda then the Azores and onto Portugal. Depart early June is usually about right. This will give you time to explore the islands and to rest up.

There is lots of boats doing the same crossing at this time of the year and if you can get a ssb radio you will be able to keep in touch with others and get weather forecasts etc. Meeting up with other trans atlantic boats in the Azores is great.

Make sure the boat is really watertight especially the deck. There's nothing worse than a damp bunk. Strengthen the washboards and make sure they are secured with a line to stop them getting lost overboard.

You wont need big tanks , just take some 5 gallon tubs of deisel and water. Longest leg is only 1800 miles ( 2 - 3 weeks normally ).

A good autopilot is a must for small boats and make sure its tested in big ocean swells before setting out.

 

[sailaway78]

Atlantic in a 28

Sure you can do it. The question is do you really want to. As was previously posted, the primary requirement for a safe passage is the experience and skill lever of the crew. As the skill level decreases, the amount of pure luck required increases. Since you have posted this question on the board, my impression is that you do not have the needed experience. Without getting this thread into a battle over brands, consider this. A 28 is a prettysmall boat for a passage like this. It can and has and will be done again on even smaller boats. Right up there with crew skills is boat condition. To make a successful crossing, this boat had better be more than OK. It will have to be AAA+ in every part and piece. There are several problems that have to be addressed though. The ability to carry supplies is paramount. Not only do you need to carry enough for the anticipated passage time, but you have to have a good reserve of everything. I like to have at least a 25% safety factor in water and food. More is better. And remember it takes twice as much for two as for a single hander. Three crew takes triple the amounts. Fuel is another question mark. That boat has a fairly small fuel tank, and as with food and water, there is not a place to stop and resupply in mid Atlantic. Spare parts have to be included. Remember you are going to be taking this boat places it was not designed to go. The more fuel and water and food and crew you add, the more weight you are adding, the less reserve boyancy you have and the poorer the boat will respond. I would suggest that you load the boat down with the approximate amount of supplies you think you will need, then wait for a really snotty weather forecast and head offshore for a couple of days. This will give you an idea of what you are in for.

 

[Ross]

Two accounts worth reading one by Ken Barnes and the other by Donna Lange. Ken claimed much experience and Donna was almost new to boating. Ken expected the boat to take care of itself and Donna has more pure grit than most people.

 

[Ross]

When it comes to provisioning, remember that food requirements are based on calories per kilogram of body weight. Two 250 pound men will require twice as much food as two people of half that weight. Lyn Pardey wrote a fine book on the care and feeding of an offshore crew. It is worth the read even if you never sail more than a day or two away from home.

 

[OldCat]

Catalina Yachts says, in effect...

Catalina Yachts says, in effect, not to do it. They rate the boat CE category B, which I think means not to do serious ocean crossing off-shore sailing. At least, that is the way I would interpret a category B rating. These categories are based, in part, on the capsize resistance of the boat. Larger Catalina yachts, from 30 feet on up, are generally, if not always, category A.

http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=19&link=spec

FWIW,
OC

 

[Ross]

Re: Catalina Yachts says, in effect...

My concern about capsize is two fold, How easy is it to knock the boat flat and how quickly will she get back up? How far can she be rolled and still come back up on her feet? Some boats are stable in two positions.

 

[Big Windy]

Based on the questions you asked, IMHO, you do not have the experience or knowledge to attempt such a crossing in what would be a marginal boat for such an edeavor.

However, bottom line is it's up to you, good luck to you if you give it a try.

 

[sailingdog]

OldCat-

There are plenty of EU RCD category A boats that I don't think are fit for an ocean crossing as a regular thing.

Ross's points about Ken Barnes and Donna Lange are very good ones.

Donna gradually worked up to her circumnavigation, and had prepared herself as much as she had the boat. Ken had a much larger boat, and had prepared it fairly well, but not himself...and basically took off without any real preparation for himself IMHO. Ken's boat was a 44' Maurice Griffiths steel staysail ketch, Donna's boat was a Southern Cross 28, which is a full keel fiberglass sloop IIRC. Ken got into trouble off the coast of Chile, and Donna was one of the few sailboats that was in contact with him. She was not too far west of him when Ken was finally rescued. Ken had to scuttle his boat, and Donna went on to finish her single-handed circumnavigation a short while later.

 

[cd30ketch]

Thanks for the advice

In response to Bonaroo and Big Windy remarks, I agree that I am not prepared for this trip. I thought that is why I was asking these questions along with a list of other things I plan to do between now and this summer.
But I have to disagree with those saying that if I have to ask these questions, I am probably not a good crew member. It is the fact that I do ask these questions that makes me a good crew member. I am not asking, what do all those ropes on the boat do? Or where is the keel? I am asking, can anyone tell me whether the Catalina 28 is or is not worthy of such a trip. Everything I have read makes me think not. I am asking about routes and times of year. All sound like smart logical questions to me.
Now I greatly appreciate most of your replies. But for those who said it is not the boat to be worrying about rather they assumed what my capabilities are, let me say, my friend’s boat is in like new condition. But the model of the boat is important. Can it structurally handle the stress of an unexpected storm? Or is the hull too flimsy? Have there ever been keel problems with this model. If in that whooper of a storm will I find out that the keel bolts were not designed to take extreme forces and find myself with no keel and upside down? If the hull does have issues can they be resolved?
I have looked up the capsize ration and see that it has a ratio of 2.02. That exceeds the 2.0 limit on stability for such a voyage, as I think I understand it. Is the .02 difference that great? I mean come on now the Beneteau Oceanis 393 has a ratio of 2.03.

Now to answer some of the questions about my personal abilities:
As to the ability to fix the engine etc. I own a Heavy equipment repair business where I trouble shoot and fix broken junk. But there are the marine related aspects about the engine that I need to get familiar with like, how often do the raw water pumps go out. Do I need more than one set of rebuild parts for it? Etc. I know I know I must be stupid to ask. I was day dreaming when God told everyone that the raw water pump on a universal diesel can only be expected to last 250 hours.
The list of thing you all are telling me to consider as far as out fitting the boat is appreciated. I have done some research on this and if the owner has a problem getting what I think is needed for me to feel safe I will not go.
As far as brass balls I think I am good in this area. There was a post on this site that mentioned a Cape Dory owner who was hit by a barge after weathering rough seas on the Gulf on the same trip. That was me. I also rode out Hurricane Ike on the boat though at a marina. I stayed on the boat to tend the lines as the marina flooded. I asked myself why I was not scared? The answer had to be that, as I am asking the questions here, I did so then and felt I was taking all precautions possible to minimize risk.
I am certain Banaroo will somehow point out that being hit by the barge was my fault but the Coast Guard told me I did everything I should have and the Tug company paid me off within 24 hours. Did I learn from it? Yes. Could I have done things differently? Yes. Sure, looking back we can always find things that could have been done different, but that barge overshot his turn onto the ICW and plowed me into a rock jetty, plan and simple.
As far as first aid. I am a former EMT and the wife is an ER nurse and we are both good at putting together first aid kits and improvising. But then again we are always open for specific suggestions.
Lastly. The owner of the boat has 35 years sailing experience. He has coastal sailed some. But he has never taken any classes and I do not know how open he is to truly critiquing such an adventure, as I am doing here. He loves his boat and I think that might also be clouding his judgment. That is why I came to you for your advice. If he wants to sail this boat I need to make my own decisions whether or not to risk it.

 

[Ross]

Re: Thanks for the advice

I think that you and your friend are prudent enough to make this trip in this boat without any great problems. If you both keep a good weather eye and make certain that you can shorten sail in a blow and practice heaving-to you should find the trip pleasantly boring.

 

[sailingdog]

CD30Ketch-

Given your description of your skills and experience... I would think that you and your friend could make this trip, provided you make the proper preparations and kept a good eye on the weather.

A few things that might make sense to do in preparation for crossing the Atlantic in a production coastal cruiser might include:

Modify the engine so that it is easier to service. For instance, replacing the water pump impeller cover with a speed seal type cover, and adding a second fuel filter so that you can switch over and change the fuel filter easily and quickly.

Add additional safety gear to the boat: Jacklines, tethers, harnesses, a third reef in the mainsail, etc.

Modify the boat slightly to make it more seaworthy: Adding a full bridgedeck to the boat, increasing the size of the cockpit drains, adding high-volume manual bilge pumps—one in the cockpit and one down below.

My biggest worries would be navigation and weather... Don't get lost, and don't get caught by a storm if at all possible.

If you decide to go... good luck and fair winds..

 

[OldCat]

OldCat-

There are plenty of EU RCD category A boats that I don't think are fit for an ocean crossing as a regular thing.

sailingdog,

I would not dispute your comment at all, I just REALLY wanted to avoid any kind of brand / model flame war - so I just stated the case regarding CE ratings as simply as possible - maybe too simply. There is no way in h*** that I would make the trip in any B rated boat, and I would bet many folks would argue the desirability of creating a double-A rating as well.

I'd be very happy to take a Catalina 28, built and rated by Catalina to go to Catalina and even somewhat beyond, to - well - Catalina. I suspect the sea is more powerful than any sailor. At some point, I doubt any amount of experience, skill or human strength can overcome the limitations of an inadequate vessel & perhaps sometimes, even bad luck in one with every design advantage.

OC

 

[sailingdog]

OldCat-

Not trying to start a flame war or start model bashing... just making a point that the EU RCD directives aren't necessarily a good criteria for choosing a bluewater boat.

Bad luck will founder even the most seaworthy vessel... and even the most unseaworthy vessel can make a long crossing with luck on its side.

 

[shelby scott]

Re: Thanks for the advice

You go man...and I will be with you in spirit and will keep you in my prayers... Life is to short not to live, fully live.