Loose stringer in bilge area

[EricCBohn]

I'm new to boats, so bear with me, but I'm also mechanically inclined and have been doing a lot of reading and research on the maintenance and survey of boats so I have some limited knowledge.

Looking at a used Catalina 25 (swing keel). 3rd owner with records, good people, and a very clean boat. I've given it a run through on my own with the help of Don Casey's sailboat maintenance book, and when looking in the bilge area I noticed a loose stringer that runs perpendicular to the length of the boat. The other stringers are glassed in and tight, but this stringer is bare wood and can be moved in all directions - it is only lightly bracketed in by what looks like fiberglass tabbing that extends about 1/2" vertically. It appears to be about a foot long 2x4-ish in size, give or take a few inches. It's not rotted, but it's very light weight like pine.

I'm wondering if it's something I should be concerned with? The bilge was dry except for a small pool of water from condensation (located in Wisconsin), and not wet in the location of the stringer.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Project_Mayhem]

I would make sure the wood is encased in resin or fiberglass to keep it water resistant. If that's the case I'd go ahead and tab it back in. Pics would help to verify suggested repair.

There's a number of things you can do to reduce condensation from a small air vent to desiccant de-humidifiers (if no power is available). I'm sure there's a number of threads on the topic.

 

[dlochner]

Generally, stringers or floors in that area serve 2 purposes, 1) to support the cabin sole and 2) keep the sides of the boat from collapsing inward. The second reason is the more important reason.

Tension on the rig wants to pull the sides of the boat together, the bulkheads and floor timbers prevent that from happening. They also stiffen the hull near the bilge and help to distribute the loads from the keel into the hull.

It would important to know why this timber is just sitting there and not substantially tabbed in to the hull. Where in the hull is it located? It might be someone's attempt to better support the cabin sole or it might be a replacement for one that was damaged.

Other than rotting away from too much moisture, the timbers are damaged from hard groundings. The timber can be pushed up and separated from the hull and/or cracked. Or if the boat was dropped on its keel.

If you can get pictures that would help.

 

[rgranger]

Are you sure it is a stringer? A picture would help.

As you were describing it, I pictured it down in your bilge area. It might have been a support to screw or bolt the bilge pump in place. If it is pine and had not been encased, I suspect it is not original to your boat or it would have rotted away by now.

 

[EricCBohn]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm not sure if it's called a stringer. Also, I'm not sure the species of wood exactly, just comparing weights.

Sorry I don't have pics just yet...The attached image isn't from this boat, but will give an example of what I'm talking about. On the boat in question the area I circled red is the piece of 2x4-ish size wood, and it's loose. The rest of the boards that are oriented in this fashion are secure.

 

[dlochner]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm not sure if it's called a stringer. Also, I'm not sure the species of wood exactly, just comparing weights.

Sorry I don't have pics just yet...The attached image isn't from this boat, but will give an example of what I'm talking about. On the boat in question the area I circled red is the piece of 2x4-ish size wood, and it's loose. The rest of the boards that are oriented in this fashion are secure.
View attachment 165870

That would be a concern because it is supporting the weight of the keel.

 

[rgranger]

That would be a concern because it is supporting the weight of the keel.

 

[EricCBohn]

That would be a concern because it is supporting the weight of the keel.

Even with a swing keel and not a fixed keel? Also, this board on our boat doesn't travel through the bilge area like it shows in the picture. It stops at the "box" that surrounds the bilge space.

 

[dlochner]

Even with a swing keel and not a fixed keel? Also, this board on our boat doesn't travel through the bilge area like it shows in the picture. It stops at the "box" that surrounds the bilge space.

Weight is weight regardless of the shape it is in. The swing keel is housed in a metal (cast iron?) stub and the centerboard part retracts into the the stub. The stub and CB weigh in at about 1500 lbs. https://www.boat-specs.com/catalina-yachts/catalina-25-swing-keel

The keel version is about 400 lbs heavier. https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/catalina-25

When the boat is sailing there is a tremendous amount of force exerted on the keel/hull joint. When the boat heels the keel acts as a lever, so you have 1500 lbs of force trying to go to the bottom. The keel bolts keep it attached to the hull and the timbers keep the hull from ripping apart.

The wood is not the structural member. The load bearing structure is the fiberglass that surrounds the timber. The wood is only there to give shape to the fiberglass. On my boat, with a 6,000 lb keel the timbers are foam cored surrounded by a ¼" + of laminate. Mads over on the Sail Life YouTube channel has been dealing with this issue, here's one video (there are several) where he talks about his options to repair the floor timbers.

The big question, is why is that piece of wood in there? What happened to the original structure? Why was it removed? Is the port side timber the same as the starboard side?

 

[NYSail]

Did you ask the seller?

Greg

 

[EricCBohn]

Did you ask the seller?

Greg

The seller said in the 6 years they've owned the boat they've never had the bilge access panel off, and they weren't aware of the loose board.

I'll be looking at it again Thursday and having the marina mechanic swing by to give his 2 cents.

 

[dlochner]

The seller said in the 6 years they've owned the boat they've never had the bilge access panel off, and they weren't aware of the loose board.

I'll be looking at it again Thursday and having the marina mechanic swing by to give his 2 cents.

Take some photos. Be cautious.

 

[rgranger]

The seller said in the 6 years they've owned the boat they've never had the bilge access panel off, and they weren't aware of the loose board..

WHAT!?

That can’t be a true statement.... I’d walk away

 

[NYSail]

The seller said in the 6 years they've owned the boat they've never had the bilge access panel off, and they weren't aware of the loose board.

I'll be looking at it again Thursday and having the marina mechanic swing by to give his 2 cents.

Crazy... 6 years owning boat and never went into bilge. Within a day of owning my boats (actually at surveys) I have stuck my face in every accessible area and touched whatever I can get my hands on!

Good Luck!!

Greg

 

[agprice22]

Are you sure it is one of the original stringers? The idea that Catalina would have not glassed it in is ridiculous. It sounds like a piece someone added. If it is in the place of one of the original stringers, I would guess this boat had a serious problem, a failure of a stringer, that had to be cut out. If you can move it, it is not doing its job.
Frankly, there are boats out there without that kind of trouble. I would keep looking unless you want a project. You could end up doing some serious work.
Also, the idea that the owner never looked under those boards indicates he did a poor job of owning this boat. Caveat Emptor!

 

[CrispyCringle]

Like others have said, that cant be a factory piece. But I would want to know why someone went to the trouble to put it there. Historical, old maintenance can range from bizar, crazy stupid, to very good. But if its bare wood and loose in the bilge it doesnt sound very good. We really need a pic.

 

[EricCBohn]

They did have a survey done when they got it 6 years ago, so I'm sure they got in the bilge then, but apparently not since then. I'll get the survey paperwork and take some pics.

There's not much of a reason to go in there since there's no bolts (swing keel) and no components besides the tube for the bilge pump?

 

[NYSail]

They did have a survey done when they got it 6 years ago, so I'm sure they got in the bilge then, but apparently not since then. I'll get the survey paperwork and take some pics.

There's not much of a reason to go in there since there's no bolts (swing keel) and no components besides the tube for the bilge pump?

To inspect and clean......

 

[LloydB]

? first owner put that in because they didn't like the way the floor felt when they steeped on that spot ?

 

[dlochner]

? first owner put that in because they didn't like the way the floor felt when they steeped on that spot ?

That could be the case. However, if there is a factory installed floor timber on the other side or if there is evidence of an original timber being removed, that would be a very different story.