Propane conversion worth it?

[tmiller1116]

We live aboard an '83 Catalina 30'. We have an alcohol stove/oven (Origo 6000) which works fine... except when we cook multiple pot meals that require high flame/high heat, then the fumes become a bit to stand. Additionally, the oven is troublesome to refuel and learning to control the temp is tough, so the wife refuses to bake (which she misses).

SOOOOO, considering the change to propane. I hate the idea of losing space in my aft lazerette since my extended battery bank is back there. Was trying to decide if a propane locker located directly in front of the mast would work.. or possibly a tank that hangs off the aft end and not actually in a locker.

The change is not cheap of course, and yes it would increase the 'quality of life' but would it add any value should we decide to sell someday (to move to something bigger of course! )

I am also tempted to change our the existing Newport wood stove for a propane one for similar reasons.... but I need to justify the total costs which I am going to guess would run as much as $3500+ to complete.

Any thoughts???? Thanks!

 

[Jackdaw]

You mention re-sale value in your post.... I would make any upgrades that were also available from the factory JUST like the factory option. (put it in the lazerette). That will help resale. Most people will buy a Cat30 as a weekend coastal cruiser... Mods that you make to make live-aboard more pleasant will most likely not make sense for this type of buyer and really hurt re-sale value.

 

[Anonymous 121765]

T,

I've have never been a proponent of storing propane in a lazerret because of leaking fumes. Boats designed with a sealed compartment work just fine, but if you can't assure a 100% sealed space, I would say no.

As an option, you can have a setup where you use say a 1LB. propane bottle with a screwed connection. When not in use the bottle is not connected. There are different units available for this if you search around. This will give you the option of keeping the alcohol system in tact. If you sell the boat in the future a selling point would be offering 2 types of cooking.

This is only a suggestion. Some will disagree with me, but that's what threads are all about pal.

CR

 

[Jackdaw]

Ron,

When he said lazerette, I assumed he meant in one of these install-able propane lockers.

Big
http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...familyName=Trident+Marine+Propane+Tank+Locker


Small
http://www.go2marine.com/product/93269F/small-propane-locker-kit-with-solenoid.html

 

[dj2210]

We had an alcohol stove on my Morgan 34 which I absolutely didn't like. I took it out and put an electric stove for dock use and a gimbaled propane singe burner for out on the hook. It was a Seacook and it worked great.

 

[tmiller1116]

yes, I should have been clear. When talking about using the lazerette I do mean the total locker setup. Want to keep it safe and legal! I know I would lose at least half my area back there and would have to reduce my spare batteries.

I have thought of a small portable cooker, but that still does not address the oven or heating.

 

[jrowan]

Hey Capt. Ron, Haden't seen a post from you in a while.
Glad to see the Catalina 30 authority is back in the saddle again.

As far as propane vs. alcohol, its well known that alcohol stoves are cheap, flare up all the time, are inconsistent heat & the fuel is expensive & stinky. Makes tons of condensation in the cabin as well. You don't have to spend $3,500 for propane cooking. If you're a live aboard then you're probably on a budget. So my advice is to buy a stern Magma type propane fired grill & mount it to the stern rail. The 1 pound gas bottles are easy to store & are not hazardous when disconnected. Cooking on the stern has many advantages: keeps out unwanted fumes, condensation & cooking / burning smells out of the cabin. Reduces the risks of fire, carbon monoxide or gas build up hazards. Also keeps out unwanted heat from the cabin during the summer months. If something burns it doesn't smoke up the cabin & the grease & mess are kept out too.

You can buy used ones on Craigs List, but W. Marine sells a cheap S.S. grill for around $60 bucks (not Magma). Pay extra for the stern rail mount.

There are also several stove tops for yachts that function as a stove top & a space heater combo, but most run on diesel type fuel, which also has smell, co2 hazards & lots of condensation problems. The only real way to fix condensate problems & make boats more liveable in cold winters is to insulate as much as possible between the hull sides & the inner liner.

Most full time liveaboards are using a slip for the water & electric hookups, etc.
Buying 110 volt cooking equipment is a lot less costly, easier to use, and you don't have to worry about running out of expensive propane fuel surce.
One thing I like about the C 30 galley is it can fit a small microwave & a toaster oven. There are also some nice looking new 110 volt big portable ovens at the big box stores these days.

My 2 cents worth.

T,

I've have never been a proponent of storing propane in a lazerret because of leaking fumes. Boats designed with a sealed compartment work just fine, but if you can't assure a 100% sealed space, I would say no.

As an option, you can have a setup where you use say a 1LB. propane bottle with a screwed connection. When not in use the bottle is not connected. There are different units available for this if you search around. This will give you the option of keeping the alcohol system in tact. If you sell the boat in the future a selling point would be offering 2 types of cooking.

This is only a suggestion. Some will disagree with me, but that's what threads are all about pal.

CR

 

[FastOlson]

Stove Myths and other Galley Lore

Be careful of misleading information concerning "alcohol stoves" as there is already some showing up in this thread.
Lots of us have used the older 70's - 80's Pressure Alcohol stoves (kerosine too!).

The Origo stove has almost nothing in common with those old alcohol pressure stoves.

We have used an Origo 6000 range since we bought our boat in '94. Works great and we cook and bake with it for all our summer cruises.

Propane (LPG) is also a nice way to cook. I did a full-on propane install in our prior smaller boat. I put in the sniffer, remote-vented compartment, and all the ABYC-spec'd wiring and hoses. It also worked just fine for our cooking needs for the decade we owned that boat.

The Origo is simple and safe, with none of the gas storage and transfer safety issues of LPG.

(Note: As for burner BTU's, all BTU's are the same... so a 9000 BTU burner puts out the same heat whether it is fueled by flamable liquid, vapor, or gen-set electrons.)

Most Important.... Whatever makes the cook happy is what counts most!

When we bought our present boat in '94, the Admiral was eager for me to "upgrade" it to LPG. After the first season she said to wait a while... and after a while longer said to never change it at all!


So change or do not change, but decide this for factual reasons.

 

[jrowan]

You forgt to mention that the large/ tall LPG tanks for marine stoves are diffcult to get refilled, as most marinas don't sell it, & the huge bottles are very heavy. We looked at several boats that had the tall LPG bottles installed & just looking at that potential fire & explosion hazard gave me shivers. A the earlier post noted, the C 30 was really designed as a weekender, not a live aboard, & LPG is more of a liability then an asset. Plus our C 30 came with the crappy alcohol stoves made by Seaward. etc. that are notorious for flaring up when lighting. Catalinas did not come with Origo stoves in the 1980's era production runs. So I don't think that I'm "misleading" anyone. Unless you've cooked on the Seaward stove that comes in a Catalina, then you don't know how they work, or usually don't work. lol. Origo stoves, which I've also had, are usually a drop in type mounted in the countertop, so they wouldn't fit the large stove opening for a C 30, without a ton of modifications. Unless you've got a big budget that most of us don't have these days, its just not worth it. You will unfortunately not get back your investemnt when its time to sell.

 

[centerline]

As far as propane vs. alcohol, its well known that alcohol stoves are cheap, flare up all the time, are inconsistent heat & the fuel is expensive & stinky.

I gotta disagree....
alcohol stoves have a price range same as propane stoves, you can buy cheap or you can buy expensive... but all that really matters is which one gives the best performance for your needs. and the most expensive isnt always the best....

a good safe alcohol stove (origo) wont flare up.... unless it or the operator, has somehow spilled fuel.....
(personally I wouldnt use a pressurized alcohol or gas stove on a boat, although some do and love them)

alcohol stoves do not supply inconsistent heat... but they do have to warm up a couple minutes after lighting for them to burn correctly and without odor....

alcohol fuel is easily and readily available almost everywhere, and only expensive if you dont know about denatured alcohol (same as stove alcohol but labeled differently)

the smell can be strong if you have incomplete combustion..... as can happen when the stove is not warmed up yet, or the valve is opened too far....

the water vapor emission is about the same as propane during combustion...

the better the combustion, the more water vapor and the less CO emission will be created, by either fuel....

propane does burn significantly hotter and will heat water quicker, but for most actual cooking, alcohol provides a nice even heat.....

propane is only cheaper if you buy it in bulk, rather than canisters, and then its very inconvenient when you run out.... unless you have some expensive canisters or an alcohol stove to use as a back up....

propane gas can collect in the lower levels of the boat, and explode....

a propane or stove/heater valve that hasnt been shut off completely (or a leak or blown out burner or pilot) is by far the most dangerous condition that can go undetected until its too late, by either fuel... (most newer models have safety valves on the pilots)

its really personal preference on what works the best as a galley stove for your individual needs, but I strongly agree that a rail mounted magma grill2 is a "must have" if your cooking on the boat in fair weather.... whether your grilling chicken, veggies, or burgers. cooking desert or boiling coffee or a pot of water to cook crab or crawfish in, the magma grill2 is the hands down winner........ and there shouldnt be any controversy with this, cuz they dont make a alcohol model magma grill

 

[jrowan]

but I strongly agree that a rail mounted magma grill2 is a "must have" if your cooking on the boat in fair weather.... whether your grilling chicken, veggies, or burgers. cooking desert or boiling coffee or a pot of water to cook crab or crawfish in, the magma grill2 is the hands down winner........ and there shouldnt be any controversy with this, cuz they dont make a alcohol model magma grill

I arrest my case, mate.

 

[tmiller1116]

well, I can see there is a lot of personal opinions when it comes to cooking

Anyway, perhaps I can reiterate and clear up some things for my questions.

We currently use an Origo (unpressurized) alcohol stove/oven combo. I do have a Magma on the stern rail, but in the PNW it is not always easy to use in winter. :cry:

The primary considerations for possibly changing to propane are because:
1) I am the only one who cooks on the current stove, wife does not like it, she would prefer gas.
2) the oven is almost unusable due to difficulty of refueling (just the way it is installed, not a manufacturer failure)
3) The heating factor has still not been addressed. Solid fuel has many points in its favor, but you have to admit gas is easier.

and as for propane storage, I am considering installing a locker directly in front of the mast, and anything that uses 1 lb or disposable canisters would be impractical for heating.

So, while I appreciate the input, and have gleaned a few things, I am still torn about whether to do it or not... oh, and for those who think the 30' is strictly a "weekender"... it works wonderfully as a live aboard if you have the right mindset. :dance: