Add refrigeration

jrowan · Dec 31, 2012

My advice is to leave the drawers in place as they're rather handy for storage, & just work with what you've got. Even if the old cold plate unit doesn't work, it may be repairable. At least you already have wiring & a unit installed that you can work with or salvage from. It probably didn't work very well anyway without insulation installed. This is kinda necessary to keep the cold in & hot out or it will cycle on & off constantly.
The original icebox is plenty big, so you could line it with closed cell styrofoam on the inside. Or you could try to remove the drawers to add some around the outer perimter, or both. The lid really needs to have insulation added inside. The later models did away with our wooden lid for an insulated one which is really necessary.
On our boat the P.O. already removed our stove & replaced it with a 110 volt mini fridge. We mostly daysail or overnight, so it keeps stuff pretty cool for about 8 hours or more off the hook. It is so much more convenient just to reach in & grab a cold one. I don't really even miss the old alcohol stove, which we never used on any of our other boats anyway. We usually grill on a stern mounted magma to keep the heat & smoke out of the cabin, which also doesn't need the extra heat in summer. Cheers.

Richard Kollmann · Dec 31, 2012

ProjMan, If you were satisfied with performance of old refrigeration system’s performance why not repair it yourself? Most of the time problems are simple to repair without a serviceman.

In 1980 thirty ft production sailboat iceboxes were not intended to be converted to refrigerators operated at box temperatures below 50 degrees F. The problems with these older production boat boxes and even many newer boat boxes is their designs do not address air infiltration leaks, most have less than adequate insulation needed for operating in warm climates, and on these boats their electrical power grids will not support refrigeration.

There are five things you must consider when making your decision about refrigeration:
1. What size refrigerator do you require?
2. What temperature do you require inside refrigerator?
3. How will water and air ambient temperatures where you plan to cruise affect your refrigeration system’s performance?
4. Will your final system have adequate insulation?
5. Final point, will be, is electrical power grid adequate for refrigeration?

My thoughts on a portable 12 volt refrigeration unit like the Engel 45 quart system for your application. I am sure there are other units equal to this unit but I have only tested the Engel under controlled conditions.
1. Engel forty five quarts capacity has about 1 ½ cubic feet of refrigerated space.
2. Engel’s thermostat can be set anywhere from a +47 degree, a drink cooler, consuming 10.8 amp-hrs a day to a – 2.65 degree freezer consuming 57 amp-hrs a day, both tests were on a 24 hour 80 degree ambient air temp testing period.
3. Power consumption of mobile refrigeration will increase 4% per degree when air temp is above 80 degrees and will decrease by 2% per degree temperature below 80 F degrees.
4. Engel `45 has good high density insulation and only a 4 degree across insulation heat loss at zero degrees box temp.
5. It is possible to live with 200 amp-hr battery bank when consuming less than 50 amp-hrs per day for refrigeration but for your planed use of boat I would recommend at least adding solar panel of 80 watts or more. Solar power will increase life of batteries and greatly reduce daily engine running time.

Richard Kollmann · Jan 1, 2013

Most 12 volt icebox conversion refrigerators for small boats use a Danfoss compressor and are very easy to repair. If this type compressor fails to run when turned on the problem is electrical and can be repaired by anyone without tools or knowledge of refrigeration. If you Email me a picture of compressor I will send you step by step instruction on what is needed to get unit up and running.

If refrigeration system was not operating when you purchased the boat I do not understand why you think you need more insulation. I installed refrigeration in my own sailboat when new in 1983 that had only two inches of box insulation and a plywood countertop I used it for 27 years in South Florida without taking box apart to increase insulation. There are nondestructive ways if you really needed to improve box heat loss. Desired box temperature and available onboard energy are two of the main factors that can justify need for more insulation. Drink coolers replacing ice with refrigeration use ½ the energy of refrigerators and freezers consume twice the daily energy of refrigerators.

richard@kollmann-marine.com
http://www.kollmann-marine.com

rbmcintire · Jan 1, 2013

ProjMan said:
I am interested in installing a refrigerator in my 1980 C30. The existing ice box had refrigeration, which has failed, that I don't believe is worth replacing. The ice box is the original style without any modifications. No insulation has been added and it is the original wooden hatch lid.

I like the idea of taking the three draw assembly located in the galley next to the ladder. Can you guys give me some guidance? Is it better to work with the existing non-insulated ice box?

We have our compressor out in the port lazzarette, up on the shelf, just aft of the ice box. It's a small 12v Danfoss unit with copper lines going into the cold plate evaporator mounted inside the ice box. You want to keep the heat produced by the refrigeration system out of the cabin's interior. These units can be really easy to install. What's the current setup and equipment location?

Rob

Chris Patterson · Jan 1, 2013

Wow! If I had to hazard a guess, my vote would be on Mr. Kollmann knowing about the refrigeration issues on most things in this regard. Cool info on the site alone.

I'm shortly going to "rehab" my cooler, it's a Grunert 12DF that I seem to find ZERO information about, and I'm seriously considering replacing the whole apparatus, simply due to the fact that at this point, I still know nothing about the basic principle upon how it works.

That 12v "cooler" that I had in another life was a disaster, but the picture on Richard's web-site has me reconsidering that similar option..

(Providing it doesn't require a nuclear reactor to run it like my last one did).

jrowan · Jan 3, 2013

Chris, I agree with you about the HUGE power draw that those 12 volt coolers demand. I bought one thinking that it was small & hence more efficient, but it was just the opposite. That cooler managed to draw down two large capacity deep cells overnight to the point thst the engine would barely crank over. That's why I like the 110 volt fridge that we have. It only uses shore power which we have all night, except for the few nights we anchor out. It stays cold for nearly 8 hours, & sometimes simpler is better. Better still, just buy a block of ice for when you're off the hook, as it can last for days.

Chris Patterson · Jan 3, 2013

jrowan said:
Chris, I agree with you about the HUGE power draw that those 12 volt coolers demand. I bought one thinking that it was small & hence more efficient, but it was just the opposite. That cooler managed to draw down two large capacity deep cells overnight to the point thst the engine would barely crank over. That's why I like the 110 volt fridge that we have. It only uses shore power which we have all night, except for the few nights we anchor out. It stays cold for nearly 8 hours, & sometimes simpler is better. Better still, just buy a block of ice for when you're off the hook, as it can last for days.

I'm right on the fence with doing just that. Scrap that junk out of my boat, and use the installed ice-box, (that I think was converted to a fridge), and put a dorm unit elsewhere. I wish I could find one of these dorm sized ones that opened on the top, as apposed to the side door..

jrowan · Jan 9, 2013

Never seen a top loading 110 volt small dorm style fridge. Front loaders can be has for under 200 bucks. Saw a neat one recently at Lowes that had a seperate freezer door on top to keep the cold in better. The only top loading portable I've seen are the cooler types, like the one I have that's a battery killer, 12 volt type. Nothings perfect, but I never hear about people using the engine to drive a compressor lie a car's engine driven A.C. does. This seems like it would work pretty well but is out of fashion these days. There are also water & keel cold systems out there. There are also propane powered fridges out there on catamerans that don't have powerful alternators to create power. The sky is the limit. But I prefer to find a simple solution instead of spending a ton on refrigeration. When I'm a live aboard on my future 40 footer, then I'll likely go whole hog on the cold plates, compressors & such.

degreeoff · Jan 11, 2013

Norcolder retro fit kit, it costs $695 and can be bent to fit the box.....auto 12v to120v switch......draws 3 amps? .... I love it

rbmcintire · Jan 12, 2013

Here's a photo of our 12V reefer condensing unit in the port lazzarette. It's very compact. The refrigeration lines run down into the ice box and go to an evaporator plate that gets mounted inside. The lines get put together with wrenches, no soldering needed. The wires go to an adjustable setting thermostat also in the box and another set goes to power, on a switch at the nav station.

Rob

OceanDriver · Jan 13, 2013

"West Marine sells a ice box conversion kit. I bought last season and converted my ice box, Works awesome and keeps it at 40 degrees. 12v/110, all I did was contact cement inside under counter with 1/4 cork and then put HVAC metal tape to cover entire cork to insulate the top part. put in the cold plate, drilled two holes in the back of ice box and set my condenser on the hot water heater in the lazz. Attached the copper hose (its all self contained) then plugged into outlet in lazz and also wired to battery. When shore power is disconnected it converts automatically to 12v. If out for an extended sail I just turn off the thermostat inside the box. Stays cool for hours. Best solution for 700.00

rgarrison@gmail.com · Jun 9, 2013

I just had new refrigerant added to my "thought it didn't work" fridge and it now works like a champ. I very recently bought this boat and the previous owner said the system never worked....

Add refrigeration

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