Water Water Everywhere IN MY BOAT!

[Ward H]

I know I have/had a slight rain-water leak and have had about an 1" of water in the bilge on and off. Even after Sandy that is all I had.
Today I checked the boat. We had a bunch of rain two days ago and I had not visited it in about 4 weeks.

I was very disappointed to find the bilge almost full, water pooled on the rear corners of the cabin sole, water in the sink and the compartment under the sink, water in icebox, v-berth was wet (cushions were on edge but still got wet), wet wood around the galley, bottom of mid bulkheads were wet on port side, water had run down the fabric covered hull in the hanging locker soaking the floor and bottom of bulkhead and a trickle of water in the V of the hull coming from the bow area.
Took out 5 gallans of water plus what I mopped up with towels. Crawling around the boat I found the following leaks.
1. Drain hose for anchor locker is leaking. PO said he found it leaking due to being plugged. It needs the drain fitting reseated, new hose and clamps. This was the source of the water found in the v of the hull.
2. Snap In Deck Plate is leaking onto v-berth. Gives me a reason to replace the deck plate with a clear plate or maybe a vent. Deck plate is for a scoop vent.
3. Water in hanging locker is probably coming from loose deck-to-hull screws. About a 1' of rub rail is damaged about 1' forward of the leak. The damaged area has a few loose screws. Will need new rub rail and mabye calking of hull / deck joint.
4. Water in galley area appears to be from being blown through the companionway boards. Looks like I should make dutch lapped boards with proper vent and seal at sliding hatch.
5. Port side chain plate bolt area was dry but showed a slight stain from a previous leak. I think the bulkheads will be fine but I need to pull, examine and rebed the chain plates. No issue on starboard side.

I think I can handle the repairs but I am open for suggestions. I did get several of Don Casey's books for Christmas, including hull and deck repair. Good timing.

I wasn't planning on tarping the boat but I did before I left, making sure suspected leak areas were covered. I brought home the wet cushions.

Looks like I got some additional spring projects added to my list. I was disapponted at first but the admiral reminded me they are just new challanges and we were lucky to find them now instead of after the boat was splashed.

Found some surprises on the exterior also but I think that warrants a separate thread.

 

[Joe11688]

Hi Ward,
It's good that you found these leaks and know where they're coming from. One year I had a tiny drop hitting me on the head as I was laying in the V birth. It was coming through the threads of one of my tabernacle bolts. It was so minute that I couldn't see it. I had to put my finger on each bolt to find moisture until I found where the drop was coming from. I wound up taking my mast down to get at that bolt. Last year when I replaced my mast extrusion I also got rid of the Teak board that I had under the tabernacle on the cabin and replaced it with a piece of Trex. I used Butyl Tape on it this time. So far, no leaks.

The last big leak I had in that boat was when my self bailing cockpit hose bit the dust over the winter layup. Like and idiot, I left a metal gas tank in the fuel locker and it rusted out causing the gasoline to eat out the hose but I didn't know this when I opened the tarp in the stern of the boat in March and could smell gasoline.
So like a dumbbell, I took my garden hose and started wetting down the cockpit and fuel locker. You can imagine where all that water went,-- right? You got it! Right into the bilge! It took me months to get the gasoline fumes out of my bilge. Live and learn.

 

[svchickadee]

I have an 78 ODay 25 and had a water leak at the deck/hull joint. After several tries I found I could not effectively repair this joint leak. If you caulk both the bottom and top of the rubrail where it meets the hull that will prevent water from getting into the joint and stop the leak. It worked for me.

 

[Joe11688]

I have to respectfully disagree with you on that. There is really no better way of putting an end to a gunwale leak than to remove the gunwale and caulking those screw heads. I can understand why you may not want to remove a vinyl rub rail. My rub rail is Aluminum and there isn't much chance of screwing it up but on the other hand I've found it easier to remove just part of my rub rail to get at the leaks with caulking than to remove a lifeline stanchion.
According to Rudy at D&R Marine, the caulking under the gunwale moldings will only last about 10 years, so if you've never re-caulked it this is a good time to do all of the gunwale moldings.

I don't know how your O'Day 25 moldings were put together but I have a pretty good idea they were done the same way as my 86 O'Day 222.
You have one long rubber insert that begins and butts up at the transom with a screw through a cup washer to hold each of them in place.
All you need to do is remove one of the rubbers from the track until you you come to a break in the molding near the bow and just work that side of the boat. In other words, remove the molding sections on that side of the boat and clean the area good. Then apply the caulking and we're only talking about the screw heads that are under the molding where the seams come together. You'll need to caulk the screw holes for the gunwale screws. When I removed the screws from my moldings I marked the area where the screws came out because there were more holes in the moldings than there were screws holding it and I needed to use the same holes that the screws came out of.
At any rate, you're not using a lot of caulking on these gunwales.

After you've finished caulking one side of the boat, put the moldings back on and install the rubber. Then do the same thing to the other side of the boat.

It's better to do this job on the hard and it's easier than removing all the moldings and rubber. Doing half of the boat at a time is easier because everything goes back just the way you took it off.

As for the type of caulking to use; It really depends on the moldings that are on your boat. If they're Vinyl, I'd use something like Dow Corning 795 or Sika Flex. Myself, I hate them. They're too messy to work with. If you have Aluminum moldings you can go with a polysulfide BoatLife or 3-M 4200.
I would stay clear of hull cleaners that can eat out caulking. I wouldn't use them on the deck.

 

[svchickadee]

I removed the rubrail and found that the hull / deck joint was not sound. The deck glass overlaps the hull glass. Machine screws go thru the deck glass thru the hull glass and into a wood stiffner epoxied to the inside of the hull. The joint was not sound in that some of the screws were missing and some of the deck glass was missing (had chipped away) where the screws had worked loose. Water had gotten into the stiffner. There is no access to this stiffner from the inside of the boat. Putting additional screws thru the deck overlap into the stiffner did not work since the stiffner was wet. Faced with this situation I felt the most cost effective solution was to install the rubrail and caulk both the bottom and top of the rubrail at the hull. This worked but is a continual maintenance issue since the caulking can fail when the boat bumps to dock. Lack of access to the hull/deck joint from the inside of the boat is a problem.

 

[Ward H]

Joe, your pics helped. I know we talked about this before but I don't remember those photos. They make it pretty clear what I have to do. What I did not understand was that there were separate joint screws and molding screws. Doing both sides sounds like a good plan.
Did you caulk all the screw holes you were going to reuse and run the screws in before the caulk set up?
Did you caulk at the lip that goes under the joint?

I'm wondering about using MS's butyl tape for bedding the gunwale after caulking all the joint screw heads.

 

[Joe11688]

Joe, your pics helped. I know we talked about this before but I don't remember those photos. They make it pretty clear what I have to do. What I did not understand was that there were separate joint screws and molding screws. Yes. Well, once you get one of the moldings off you'll see the screw heads that hold the deck to the hull along that seam. Doing both sides sounds like a good plan. Doing the whole thing is a good plan if you've never done it in a long time. One year I had leaks up the ying yang in my cabin. I read in one of my boat books that a common house hold cleanser like "Zud" will take the stains right out of Fiberglas Gelcoat. Well, it did. It also ate away all the caulking under my gunwale moldings. :cussing: I the gunwale moldings my boat on a warm summer day in my driveway next to my house and I was able to do it in no time at all, just doing one side of the boat at a time.
Did you caulk all the screw holes you were going to reuse and run the screws in before the caulk set up? Yes I did and when I put the moldings back on, I put a small dab of caulking on each of the screw threads as I screwed the moldings back on.
Did you caulk at the lip that goes under the joint? My deck has a lip that fits over the hull joint under the moldings. I saw no need to caulk it. You can use your own discretion on that. It can't hurt to do it and I don't think you would use that much caulking.

I'm wondering about using MS's butyl tape for bedding the gunwale after caulking all the joint screw heads. You know Ward? Butyl tape is great for some applications like bedding a hinged tabernacle, side chainplates, or a bow stem chain plate because these pieces of hardware are secured with bolts. You know that if they get banged or disturbed in any way, they're not going to move and cause leaks, but anything that is held on with screws like toe rails and gunwale moldings needs to be adhered at least where the screws hold it in place. I would stick to one type of caulking. Water is going to get into that molding regardless, but you want it to drain out.
I think that once you get those moldings off you'll see all the spots that need to be caulked.

 

[emergpa1]

I removed the rubrail and found that the hull / deck joint was not sound. The deck glass overlaps the hull glass. Machine screws go thru the deck glass thru the hull glass and into a wood stiffner epoxied to the inside of the hull. The joint was not sound in that some of the screws were missing and some of the deck glass was missing (had chipped away) where the screws had worked loose. Water had gotten into the stiffner. There is no access to this stiffner from the inside of the boat. Putting additional screws thru the deck overlap into the stiffner did not work since the stiffner was wet. Faced with this situation I felt the most cost effective solution was to install the rubrail and caulk both the bottom and top of the rubrail at the hull. This worked but is a continual maintenance issue since the caulking can fail when the boat bumps to dock. Lack of access to the hull/deck joint from the inside of the boat is a problem.

I've wondered if anyone has glassed over the hull to deck? Or, where the stiffener has gotten soft, over-drill the holes then fill with thin, then thickened epoxy.

 

[Shoaldrafter]

glassing joint

I've wondered if anyone has glassed over the hull to deck? Or, where the stiffener has gotten soft, over-drill the holes then fill with thin, then thickened epoxy.

Keith,

I have not seen it done on O'Day's but have
seen it done on Catalinas by rebuilder who
know what he was doing.

Initially it probably works, but will it take the
flexing of hull to deck?

On boat as old as his and since it was production
boat, rather than unique custom boat, I would
just use lots of sealant that is flexible...

Ed K
Addendum:
“Non-stupid people always underestimate
the harmful potential of stupid people; they
constantly forget that at any time anywhere,
and in any circumstance, dealing with or
associating themselves with stupid individuals
invariably constitutes a costly error.”
Carlo Maria Cipolla

 

[Indysailor]

Keith,

I have not seen it done on O'Day's but have
seen it done on Catalinas by rebuilder who
know what he was doing.

Initially it probably works, but will it take the
flexing of hull to deck?

On boat as old as his and since it was production
boat, rather than unique custom boat, I would
just use lots of sealant that is flexible...

Ed K
Addendum:
“Non-stupid people always underestimate
the harmful potential of stupid people; they
constantly forget that at any time anywhere,
and in any circumstance, dealing with or
associating themselves with stupid individuals
invariably constitutes a costly error.”
Carlo Maria Cipolla

The transom of my boat was damaged a long time ago and the po had the hull/deck joint glassed. It looks like crap, but it doesn't leak. Someday I will get the eight feet of rubrail ad replace it.

 

[Shoaldrafter]

looks like crap

The transom of my boat was damaged a long time ago and the po had the hull/deck joint glassed. It looks like crap, but it doesn't leak. Someday I will get the eight feet of rubrail ad replace it.

I was said, "looks like crap".

With care it can look better than new... Depends of craftsman...

Ed K
Addendum:
The first law of economics is scarcity: There
is never enough of anything to satisfy all
those who want it. The first lesson of politics
is to disregard the first lesson of economics.”
Thomas Sowell