inexpensive radar choices

[Snotter]

When it comes to seeing smaller radar cross section (RCS) targets, the more the power the better. With any radar, the power in the front end of the radar receiver falls off by range raised to the fourth power.

The R to the 4th retlationship is why I can't stand my 2kw radar. Small RCS objects are either difficult or very hard to see (not very many pixels on the screen). Chances are if you collide with another boat it will because you didn't see it. The more powerful the radar the safer it will be--in my humble opinion.

 

[Rick486]

If you are a serious sailor and find yourself in limited visibility situations, Furuno is the way to go for performance and most importantly, reliability. Just stop by any busy fishing harbor and see which radars the offshore fishermen use. Furuno, Furuno, Furuno. I would stay way far away from Garmin and Lowrance. Raymarine is OK but I pre3fer Furuno. I had a Furuno for 22 years on my yawl with no problems at all. I now have a Raymarine and have been satisfied with 5 years service.

 

[chuckwayne]

I'll second what Jackdaw said..most of the time in fog we're concerned about things that are much nearer, usually within 1 mile-the high resolution and great detail of the broadband radar more that compensates for any long range issues. On flotilla, we usually track our Hunters quite well when we're spread out, and we can easily see sailboats 2 miles out. The distant things you want to see are large ships and ferries with high approach speeds; a small sailboat 4 miles away is not a worry

 

[Richard19068]

Thanks guys.

The tankers, ferries and other large commercial traffic show up on my AIS display and I also assume they will show up on any radar I end up with so I'm not worried about them. For me, The radar is to help avoid the smaller yahoos who might be running around in the fog and at night at excessive speed. It does happen.

The radar thing is new to me. I like the low power draw and purported clarity of the broadband but just want to make sure I'm not disappointed in how far out it will see the traffic I'm interested in.

Thanks again. I appreciate the time it takes to respond.

 

[Fred Villiard]

Check Practical Sailor this month, they did a test on the broad bands 3G & 4G.
I have both Furno 4kw open array and a Lowrance origional broad band on my Grady and since getting the lowrance about 3 years ago, the only time I light up the 4kw is ghecking for birds and weather. The rest of the time it's just the BR24 if I had to choose between one or the other the Lowrance would win hands down.

I'm thinking of upgrading the Grady to a 4G and 12 inch screen and moving the BR24 and the 7 inch screen over on the Mac

It's very nice to be able to pickup the crab floats in the dark with in a few yards of the boat.

Fred Villiard

 

[FourPoints]

Check Practical Sailor this month, they did a test on the broad bands 3G & 4G.

I was thinking about this thread last night while I read that same article. In case you don't have a PS subscription, the summary is the 3G/4G draws WAY less power than the pulse radar, and at ranges less than 20 miles perform just fine. For anything over 20nm to be reliably picked up you need pulse radar. 3G is way better at target discrimination / resolution than pulse radar, and at ranges of less than 1nm, the 4G more than one ups that and completly kicks the crap out of the 3G for target discrimination / resolution.

Also both 3G and 4G have a much smaller dead zone around the boat, with 4G picking up things as close as 16 feet away, where pulse radar is normally blind inside a 150ft bubble around the boat.

Conclusion, 4G radar is likely what you want.

 

[Jackdaw]

I was thinking about this thread last night while I read that same article. In case you don't have a PS subscription, the summary is the 3G/4G draws WAY less power than the pulse radar, and at ranges less than 20 miles perform just fine. For anything over 20nm to be reliably picked up you need pulse radar. 3G is way better at target discrimination / resolution than pulse radar, and at ranges of less than 1nm, the 4G more than one ups that and completly kicks the crap out of the 3G for target discrimination / resolution.

Also both 3G and 4G have a much smaller dead zone around the boat, with 4G picking up things as close as 16 feet away, where pulse radar is normally blind inside a 150ft bubble around the boat.

Conclusion, 4G radar is likely what you want.

I can vouch for that. I'm continually amazed at the close-in resolution, and the lack of dead zone. With the rate compass providing course-up view overlay on the map, I've been tempted to make a 'instruments' approach to the slip. Just tempted mind you. But its nice that its that clear.

 

[Richard19068]

Thanks once again. I got access to the PS report. Interesting reading. It's clear that the broadband is better at very close in , out to a mile or two. What it still doesn't address, and what I can't see anywhere, is how the broadband units compare to the 4KW 18" domes at seeing a recreational size vessel at the 3 to 5 mile range. I understand that sometimes nothing is going to see them. If broadband and pulse were the same at that range I would definitely go with the broadband. I just don't see any information that compares the two at that range. Everything is talking about seeing tankers or gradually sloping land masses or power plants and low lying islands or lobster pots. I want to know about seeing recreational size boats at 3-5 miles. Maybe I'm just over analyzing it or not seeing it.

I do appreciate all the comments and help so keep it coming if you have more.

 

[Maine Sail]

Guys,

I had a chance to play with the brand new Lowrance HDS 7 today, a real live working one not just a display. Only 15 WM stores in the country got them and it just went up two days ago..

This is BY FAR the best value in a plotter, radar, sounder etc... It has some VERY, VERY cool features. I will certainly be steering my customers to look in that direction in the future. I will up load some pics later... Forget the Garmin & Raymarine IMHO, for the money, the HDS-7 and a Lowrance radome simply can't be beat..

Kudo's to Lowrance for stepping it up a notch. I am not easily impressed and that unit, for the price, is impressive...

 

[FastOlson]

Checking on a Vital stat

I found their on-line pdf manual and on page 113 it states that their Compass Safe Distance is....... 8".
http://www.lowrance.com/Root/Lowrance-Documents/HDS/HDS-5-7-COMBO_OM_EN_988-0176-01_B_w.pdf

That's a huge difference from the Garmin products lately.
And so it might work out OK on a typical ss guard mounting on many sailboats.

Worth looking into, indeed!


Thanks,

Loren

 

[Rick D]

OK, I do think you are over analyzing a bit. There is a lot more to radar than seeing a recreational boat out 3-5 miles. First, that's too far IMHO. 2 miles and under is plenty for recreational craft. Even with a good reflector, small boats just don't show up well at that range and their closing speed isn't that big a deal anyway. Bigger power boats are probably running open array 4KW units that will see you. Second, power draw. Third, safe antenna distance from yourself. Fourth, ease of mounting and cabling. Fifth, durability and reputation. Etc. I think you should think through why you want or think you need that kind of small craft range. However, I do think that is the digital sweet spot anyway. Just don't expect miracles. A lot is in the operator, tuning and practice.

 

[Jackdaw]

OK, I do think you are over analyzing a bit. There is a lot more to radar than seeing a recreational boat out 3-5 miles. First, that's too far IMHO. 2 miles and under is plenty for recreational craft. Even with a good reflector, small boats just don't show up well at that range and their closing speed isn't that big a deal anyway. Bigger power boats are probably running open array 4KW units that will see you. Second, power draw. Third, safe antenna distance from yourself. Fourth, ease of mounting and cabling. Fifth, durability and reputation. Etc. I think you should think through why you want or think you need that kind of small craft range. However, I do think that is the digital sweet spot anyway. Just don't expect miracles. A lot is in the operator, tuning and practice.

Rick,

I agree with what you are saying. The only thing I'd add in regard to operator, tuning, and practice is the HUGE advances that Lowrance and simrad (and others too) have made in operational simplicity. The adaptive gain and de-clutter on the mufti and units is great. Frankly we leave the settings in AUTO almost all the time. I agree that like any technology its better the more you know, but gap between a first time user and a old salt is getting narrower, and thats a good thing. I can do an old-school intercept, but putting the cursor on a target and letting mini-ARPA track it is much safer and easier in a boat without a dedicated radar operator.

 

[Gunni]

You are getting some great advice from these guys Richard. There is no silver bullet, you get out in those pacific rollers you will lose recreational boats in the troughs, add in rain and it further diminishes. And some boats just don't reflect well. A modern radar's ability to lock and track a target with software is an important thing to evaluate. Consider adding an AIS B, chartplotter overlay. Anything you have on AIS you don't need to find on radar.

We nearly ran over an unlit yawl off the coast of Florida a few years ago - because we had our old radar off on a clear night to save juice

 

[Richard19068]

You are getting some great advice from these guys Richard.

I realize that and really appreciate it! It's all helping me understand what to expect and what to choose.

I do have an AIS receiver with a Vesper Marine Watchmate display and just love it. That covers most of the bigger ships and is why I'm concerned about the radar picking up the smaller traffic.

Thank you all.