A little more finished looking now.

[c_witch]

Thaxn to you guys for the compliments and encouragement. I have another question now. Ok so I'm sailing under main alone and on a starboard tack 40 of so off the wind. I find that I have to keep the rudder pushed quite a ways to port in order to maintain that heading. If I bring it back toward midship or a little less she falls off quite a bit. Its like the wind is pushing her bow to leeward. Mind you this is in fairly light wind 5 to 8 knots.

c_witch

 

[rgranger]

Thaxn to you guys for the compliments and encouragement. I have another question now. Ok so I'm sailing under main alone and on a starboard tack 40 of so off the wind. I find that I have to keep the rudder pushed quite a ways to port in order to maintain that heading. If I bring it back toward midship or a little less she falls off quite a bit. Its like the wind is pushing her bow to leeward. Mind you this is in fairly light wind 5 to 8 knots.

c_witch

Falls off or rounds up? If you are having to hold her to port, then she is trying to fall off. That seems backwards in my mind. Without the head sail, the boat's center of effort has moved aft and the boat should want to round up. Maybe your slot effect on your rig places the center of effort further back than I'd expect... and without the head sail it has move forward. What happens when you try to sail with only the head sail?

 

[Douglast]

i can't get mine to be happy with just one sail in light wind..i need both the main and jib...in a bit heavier wind i feel i have decent control with just the main and point decent...i have no good feelings with just the jib in any situation..i don't think a situation is anywhere close to proper if you have to have the rudder far to one side

 

[c_witch]

Falls off or rounds up? If you are having to hold her to port, then she is trying to fall off. That seems backwards in my mind. Without the head sail, the boat's center of effort has moved aft and the boat should want to round up. Maybe your slot effect on your rig places the center of effort further back than I'd expect... and without the head sail it has move forward. What happens when you try to sail with only the head sail?

I think I did not explain it very well. My fault. I am pointing 40 or so into the wind but have to keep the tiller well over to port to do so. If I midship it then the closest I can sail seems to be maybe 20 or so and if I let go of the tiller she will round up into the wind.

c_witch

 

[Merlin Clark]

That makes sense Brina. Your center of lateral resistance (CLR= hull and keel) stays the same but by not flying the jib, you've shifted the center of effort (CE= from the sails) aft and lost the balance so the wind wants to push the stern around.
http://www.myrc.org/Library/centeref.htm
You might notice some improvement by raising the swing keel which should move the CLR further aft.

 

[c_witch]

Thanx again guys. The reason for sailing under main alone is that I am still trying to figure out how this boat was orignally rigged ie Masthead or Fractional. We have 2 halyards for head sails on this one running to the mast head and the other about 3/4 or so up the mast. Both have forestays running down to the bow. Its my understanding that a masthead rig simply won't sail under main alone. Is there any other way to determine what the original rigging was?? When we bought it it was rigged as a cutter but this was a PO configuration.

c_witch

 

[Merlin Clark]

Can you post a pic of the rig?
That's fiction about a masthead rig. Mine is a mast head rig and can reach and run fine on main alone just doesn't point very high w/o a jib. And I have some weather helm.
With main and jib, the boat can be balanced with no helm at all running w/o a jib.
The old boats like mine were designed with a long footed main and many later production boats had larger fore triangles and shorter footed mains.
Now, many designers are going back to long footed mains.
The big fore triangle- short footed main boats might not sail well under main alone but that doesn't have anything to do with where the forestay attaches to the mast.

Oh, which stay does your jib fit?

 

[rgranger]

C-witch

I'm confused. If you are on a starboard tack then the wind is blowing across your starboard rail. And if you are having to throw the rudder to port, to fly straight then you have lee helm... (your boat wants to fall off). And that seems backwards to me if you are under main alone. Your boat should want to round up under main alone. But that is what you are now saying. So in the original question did you mean to say port tack?

If so, then what you are experiencing is perfectly normal. And a result of you moving your CE backwards.

 

[c_witch]

C-witch

I'm confused. If you are on a starboard tack then the wind is blowing across your starboard rail. And if you are having to throw the rudder to port, to fly straight then you have lee helm... (your boat wants to fall off). And that seems backwards to me if you are under main alone. Your boat should want to round up under main alone. But that is what you are now saying. So in the original question did you mean to say port tack?

If so, then what you are experiencing is perfectly normal. And a result of you moving your CE backwards.

Hiee,

No I have to keep the rudder hard to port to maintain my heading pointing as high as I can into the wind. If I let go of it it will round up into the wind eventually under light air 4 - 5 knots.

c_witch

 

[c_witch]

Hiee,

Sas had surgory on Thru. of last week so I have not been over to the boat. I will try and get some pictures of the rigging this coming Tues when I go over. Our fore sail is on a 'Barton' furler. They do not ride on the forestay but use a s/s wire rope sewn into the leech of the sail (forward edge?). Our main sail has a 10 foot foot and somewhere around a 22 foot luff. The jib is something like 8 foot foot and 18 foot luff. We do have another jib slightly larger with hanks on it that could be used on the main forestay but not without removing the furling jib and lower forestay.

c_witch

 

[Merlin Clark]

Hope her surgery went well and she recovers quickly.
I like that type furler. Very easy to drop the jib for storms, etc.

 

[c_witch]

Hope her surgery went well and she recovers quickly.
I like that type furler. Very easy to drop the jib for storms, etc.

Yes that is true but you can not reef the jib with this arrangement as the jib does not wind up onto a foil as other systems, but onto the s/s wire rope sewn into the sail. The halyard affixes to a swivel and that in turn affixes to the sail.

c_witch

 

[Merlin Clark]

Have you seen the home made furlers? They use a PVC pipe as the extrusion.
Wonder if the wire type could be fitted with a PVC extrusion?

 

[bilsheryl]

Yes, I built one, now with that said, it works but I rather use a down hauler. The hub is a insulator off a telephone post that I drilled out to accept a .50 grey pipe. And on my little sailboat, a down hauler works better for me.

 

[rgranger]

I second a down haul. I put one on my Mac V22 and it works great. And cost $20 worth of parts from Tractor Supply to rig. After you haul down your large Genoa, you can pull taught one of the sheets and cleat it off. That causes the genoa to lay nice and flat along one side of your deck. Then reef your main, and things calm down, you can go hank your storm jib. The performance of a partially furled genoa is not so great... and if you boat is not moving fast through the chop the ride is very uncomfortable. However, with a good storm jib and a reefed main, I can do hull speed with 10 deg. heel. Very comfortable ride and the boat slices through the chop instead of getting pounded by it.

 

[Merlin Clark]

Did they have s/s hardware at tractor supply? I don't think you can do anything for $20 at WM. Maybe get a coke.

 

[rgranger]

Did they have s/s hardware at tractor supply? I don't think you can do anything for $20 at WM. Maybe get a coke.

No... I just used chrome plated blocks and secured them to my front chain plate with a ss shackle (they do have those at TS). The other two blocks (one on my bow pulpit and one on my shroud) I secured using three of those plastic "zip strips" used to keep computer cables bundled together. I'm into my second season and so far they blocks have held up. I rinse my boat off after every salt water cruise... I'm sure that helps. And I've had to hit the blocks with WD40 once.

To be honest, I doubt I even spent $20. The three blocks I used were less than $5 each, I already had the zip strips and the line so ... I'm guessing I spend $15 getting it set up.

You don't need a heavy line for a down haul so you don't need a large block either. A larger line would be nice on my hands but I have led my line to the cockpit so I wind it around my winch when I pull the sail down.

 

[Merlin Clark]

Thanks. I had been using a couple of snap hooks (on stantion bases) with the line ran thru the hole which has to be adding a bunch of friction. I'll get a couple of blocks and do it right.
The line I have for this is 1/4" braided nylon fm HD. The size is ok but it is very stiff and prone to forming tight little loops. Maybe if I wash it in the machine it'll soften up.