Jib Stuck At Top Of My Furler Foil (Can"t Get Down)

[rardiH36]

My jib is stuck right at it's full up position. It's attached to the head swivel unit by a pendant as shown in the attached pic. Sail has come down easily the previous 10 times over the last 5 years or so. Can't get it down this time. I have a Profurl unit from late 1990's. 44" luff.

I even rigged a snatch block to my anchor roller, attached a line to my sail's tack, and ran the line back to a cabin top winch. By this method, even a lot of down tension on the sail's luff wouldn't budge the furler's swivel head downward at all. By a couple of observation methods, the jib halyard is slack up there; so a frozen sheave is not the issue. The roller furler still works great wrapping up the sail around the foil.

I expect this will require a trip up the mast to troubleshoot. But before I call a rigger, anybody experience this? Solution?

 

[capta]

hung sail

What rigger?
Get out your bosun's chair, get your lady or a friend to crank you up and fix your problem.
Don't forget to take a hammer!

 

[RichH]

Look at my attached 'reply pic'. Is your masthead VHF antenna working?

Take a good look at the very 'tip' of the red arrows in MY pic .... looks like RG-58U coax antenna wire to me ????? or electric wire? or messenger line?

 

[justsomeguy]

Look at my attached 'reply pic'. Is your masthead VHF antenna working?

Take a good look at the very 'tip' of the red arrows in MY pic .... looks like RG-58U coax antenna wire to me ????? or electric wire? or messenger line?

Good eyes. But I think the original pic shows better, another line above/forward?

Could even be the same line, strangely turned, wrapped up and around a clevis pin?

Weird. Who ever put that together...I'd like to speak with 'em.

 

[Stu Jackson]

STOP! Please.

Rardi, it looks like a ProFurl. Right?

Your "Darth Vader" top halyard restrainer is 180 degrees out of whack. The halyard should be aft, not forward, of the stay. The "wire" is simply the tang that connects the top to the swivel. It is NOT wire!!!

Somehow your top swivel and restrainer are messed up.

Yup, someone has to go up or you need to drop the whole extrusion and check it out.

Do you have the install manual? I do, it's on my boat but I'm in Canada, returning Monday night.

Let me know.

 

[Steve Dion]

Stu: Did you go to Canada so you could miss the AC45 competition this weekend?

 

[Stu Jackson]

Nope, but there's always Latitude 38!

 

[Steve Dion]

Yup! They are also streaming the video too. Enjoy!

 

[All U Get]

Look at my attached 'reply pic'. Is your masthead VHF antenna working?

Take a good look at the very 'tip' of the red arrows in MY pic .... looks like RG-58U coax antenna wire to me ????? or electric wire? or messenger line?

Here's a picture of mine that had the top swivel kinda 180 from what I thought it should be. I also used a lot of Sailkote to get the luff tape to slide in the foil. Profurl said to loosen the set screw to get the swivel to turn or drill it out.
I took this unit off since it was for the mainsail which I've changed for the traditional slab reefing set-up. Hope this helps and good luck.
All U Get

 

[rardiH36]

Thanks all -

RichH (and justsomeguy): Very precise red arrows! Your lower left arrow points to what I call the "tang" of the swivel head that the halyard attaches to. The arrows in the attached cut-and-paste from the manual show. As to the other arrow ? Will need to ascertain, but looks more like part of the mast head aluminum extrusion? As I mentioned in the opening query, the halyard does go slack after turning back down over the sheave towards the swivel head. So even if the item is a messenger or wire, it doesn't seem to be the cause of the current issue.

capta: Believe me I've thought about pros/cons of doing my own mast climbing many times since I got into sailing at the age of 55 five years ago. Just hadn't yet had the need to stare it in the face. Not shy of heights. But if I were to do it myself, I am more inclined to to go the self hoisting route than wife (no!) or friends to keep control of winches and safely easing the lines to let me back down. Equipment and line costs for self climbing gear and perhaps still needing to call in some professional help to fix vs. paying a rigger who also should have the experience to diagnose/repair efficiently? ... I'm still pondering.

Stu: Thanks. From Profurl's site several years ago, I do have a downloaded pdf manual. I had looked at it prior to my posting last night. I had noticed that the darth vader black wrap stop piece probably should be oriented with the open section facing the mast. But otherwise, nothing in the manual that gives a clue on how to unstick a stuck halyard swivel. I'm sure that the manual will come in handy when the repair starts. Fortunately since there is no indication of the actual roller function going bad, and that my current headsail is doing fine, I can still go sailing over the next several weeks before committing to down time for the repair.

All U Get: Thanks the pic's. When I slackened my jib's tack, the sail's luff tape retreated up the slot. It looked slack all the way up. So I don't think the #6 tape is stuck in the extrusion slot.

As to the AC45 World Series races, when out this past Tuesday, we found that the AC45's were hugging close to the waterfront. So no opportunity for photos. But San Francisco's finest were out on their Big Red boat also to take a look. Below.

rardi

 

[justsomeguy]

Thanks all -

RichH (and justsomeguy): snip- As to the other arrow ? Will need to ascertain, but looks more like part of the mast head aluminum extrusion? -snip

rardi

Stu's right.
Looking again, it seems to be the top fitting of the forestay. That would fit to the clevis pin.

 

[Stu Jackson]

rardi, it's not "probably" it is definitely.

You are NOT looking at a big down time. Get a rigger for four hours and you're done. Why temp fate and more stuff breaking. Yes, you can sail, but the only reason stuff is still up there is 'cuz it looks likes it's all binding against the second halyard and block.

Just fix it (I know, I know - easy for me to say, but that's what I'd do if it was my boat - before I'd sail it again).

 

[heritage]

I did the installation of a similar Profurl unit several years ago and I think I know what your problem is. The wrapstop (black plastic thing at the top) is held in place on the ss jib stay by tightening screws. And Stu is right, the cut out portion should be facing aft. Its job is to keep the halyard from wrapping around the jib stay. The wrapstop has loosened some and has rotated forward and bringing the jib halyard with it. This movement effectively shortens the halyard and pulls the furling swivel up the jib stay until it hits the lower end of the jib stays swaged terminal.... and jams.

The upper furler swivel is in two sections. The lower section swivels and the upper section is stationary because of the pulling force of the halyard and the stopping force of the wrapstop. A couple of taps with a hammer should send the swivel down the furler extrusion.

Here is the installation manual that should help to clarify what I'm trying to say:

http://www.profurl.com/images/info_pages/manuelmontage-gdmodele-consoilde-light-22.pdf

 

[joker460]

I had the same problem with my profurl when I took possession. The sail furled with no problems. When it came time to drop the sail, no joy.

There is a plastic bushing in the swivel that allows the swivel to slide up and down on the foil. Over time it wears(Mine was 10 years old). Usually unevenly. When you pull down on it , it jams into the foil.

You can go up and tap it down carefully (Do not scratch the foil) or wait until you drop the mast.

I got the replacement part ($9) from Profurl and now it doesn't jam anymore.

It may be the same problem with yours.

Good Luck

Ps: Here is a guy that repaired his complete system.

http://www.exfac.com/aussie_bray/profurl_bearings.htm

 

[rardiH36]

Heritage:

Thanks for the link. It's for a newer version of my model (whatever that is - got to determine). But it has much better photos/graphics and clarity than the pdf for the older models. And your pdf has something in it which the older ones didn't:

"DO NOT over tension the halyard swivel or let the halyard swivel go above the top end of the luff extrusions"

In addition to the wrap stop moving away from the correct position, it's a good bet this has caused my current problem. The wrap stop came loose and I caused the swivel go above the top end of the extrusions. Question is have I deformed the top end of the aluminum extrusions so that the head swivel can't be put back into position while the furler assembly is still on the boat? The guy who will go up will determine.

 

[rardiH36]

Joker460: Thanks, you all are giving great info and experiences on this topic.

 

[Don12364]

Its just come off the top of the extrusion and then it rotated. It needs putting back on again and, this time, go easy on the halyard tension.
Also don't hoist unless the tack is attached at the bottom of the foil.

 

[rardiH36]

Stuck Jib Update - Down But A Bigger Problem (Maybe)

Just thought to update the responders of a couple of weeks ago to my opening post.

I did find out more information about the Profurl. And I bought equipment to ascend the mast. After a few practice climbs only to the spreader over a couple of days, I did make it to top yesterday.

Before the climb, I grabbed the bottom of my loosely furled jib and pushed up on it. The whole sail moved up along the foil slot and even the short pennant from the head to the swivel went slack. So the problem definitely was not the luff tape stuck in the slot.

Reaching the top, I found that the black "darth vader" halyard wrap stop device indeed was loose, which you guys knew. No longer firmly gripping the head stay. I have removed it for shaving off a bit of the mating surfaces which then will make smaller the center hole which the head stay passes through. It will again be tight when I reinstall. (A rigger told me this is their process.)

The swivel head was still on the extrusion but maybe about 1/4" of the 3" bore length was above. Very light taps with a hammer did make it move very stiffly down 6" before I stopped. The swivel head was square to the aluminum extrusion, so wasn't wedged because of canting. The extrusion itself showed no sign of damage or distortion. And the upper extrusion/stay roller bearing seemed aligned and up to its task. As I couldn't ascertain the internal problem with my knowledge, I slowly/carefully returned to the deck.

Just on whim I unfurled the sail and pulled down hard. The thing actually came down a few inches and continued to do so with each pull. It wouldn't budge last week. It is now off!

From the security of having feet on the deck and a full tool box at hand, I decided to twist the part of the swivel head that is not suppose to rotate on the extrusion. It turned against the extrusion and about 90 degrees later, popped into the normal position. Easy up and down movement was restored. Speaking with the rigger later he explained that inside the swivel head is a delron type bushing that is contoured with protrusions to match corresponding indentations that go up and down the entire length of the extrusion. This keeps the non-rotating part aligned. With time the bushing's protrusions become worn and then some stress event causes the fixed part of the swivel head to rotate and then lock up. A stress event is likely to cause a repeat performance more frequently now. Cost of a new bushing = about $20. But the entire furler must be removed from the boat to get at it. A day's work (if all goes well) for the experts. At $100 per hour = ouch. Being a older furler, the advice was to give thought to replacing it with something new. The time to install a new one is about the same as repairing the old one.

Pondering. But in the interim, I've figured out a work-around that should prevent the fixed part of the swivel head unit from rotating out if its extrusion grove again. I can do this without taking down the furler and at deck level. And it can be done with various rigging and block supplies I have in my old parts box.

 

[alexco38]

"Cost of a new bushing = about $20. But the entire furler must be removed from the boat to get at it. A day's work (if all goes well) for the experts. At $100 per hour = ouch. "

Why can't you secure the mast by a couple of halyards to the bow and lower the furler to the deck to work on it. It wouldn't take a day. You'll need to do that if you replace the furler anyway.

Those Profurler was quite a good design. A new one would cost more than $800 + the same labor.

 

[joker460]

Those were the bushings I was talking about(Mine has 2, 1 top and 1 bottom). They're $9.00 each from Profurl. Give them a call and they will tell you where the closest retailer is as you can't order from them directly. I bought 2 extra because they will eventually make that part obsolete.

You use a hacksaw blade to cut out the existing bushings. The new bushing can be press fit in place using 2 large washers and threaded rod.

If you drop the mast, can do the job yourself and save a few bucks.

Good Luck

PS: In mine there is a small set screw that prevents the bushing from rotating.