Broken fid

[All U Get]

Hi all,
Since a recent post on jib sheet connections I got thinking I should get the honkin' big Bowline knots off the clew of our genny. I have 3/4 inch line on this sail and the picture below shows why they get hung up while coming about. Once we get out cruising it's no problem cause we travel miles before any tack, but through the coastal islands it can be a PITA.
My splicing expertise is limited to a handfull of attempts but we had some time during the evening so got out the fids. The first one took about an hour of slowly reading the five (easy?) steps. About half way in to the second one I broke the fid from Yale Cordage and had to improvise with tape, a smaller fid, and slowly easing the strands over the inserting parts. The results were close to the first splice in general neatness. My wife finished the whipping since I decided a gin toast was called for.
We were going to exchange the bowlines for eyesplices, but the sailing was too good when we opened the sail.
All U Get

 

[jviss]

Hi all,
Since a recent post on jib sheet connections I got thinking I should get the honkin' big Bowline knots off the clew of our genny. I have 3/4 inch line on this sail and the picture below shows why they get hung up while coming about. Once we get out cruising it's no problem cause we travel miles before any tack, but through the coastal islands it can be a PITA.
My splicing expertise is limited to a handfull of attempts but we had some time during the evening so got out the fids. The first one took about an hour of slowly reading the five (easy?) steps. About half way in to the second one I broke the fid from Yale Cordage and had to improvise with tape, a smaller fid, and slowly easing the strands over the inserting parts. The results were close to the first splice in general neatness. My wife finished the whipping since I decided a gin toast was called for.
We were going to exchange the bowlines for eyesplices, but the sailing was too good when we opened the sail.
All U Get

You can tie a bowline with the the tail inside rather than out, which will reduce fouling. Are you planning on splicing the sheets into the clew? Not a good idea. A bowline is best because it can be untied fairly easily, in case of an emergency, and also to end-for-end your sheets every year (they will last longer that way).

Cheers,

jv

 

[SEMIJim]

Congratulations on the splicing! I cannot tell, from that picture, how good they really are, but, chances are if you got the final bury all's probably well . They're "only" jib sheets, anyway, so odds are if one of them fails it won't be catastrophic.

JV's right about the bowline knots, btw. You can tie 'em with the bitter end inside the loop, rather than outside. That's the way I do mine, by default. I know how to tie the other style, but I never do.

Jim

 

[kpgraci]

I'm curious how you broke a fid. That's some aggressive fidding there.

My jib sheet is one continuous line, doubled on itself with the loop passed through the clew and the tail(s) passed through the loop - very clean and small - there's a name for that kind of bend...which I can't think of now.

...and why is jib sheet showing up as a (broken) link in all these posts?

 

[Warren Milberg]

I've had a lot of luck making ad hoc fids out of wire coat hangars (bent in a long "u" shape). I've also never had a bowline, used to secure headsail sheets, either open accidently or hang up on the rigging. If you start your tack by backing the headsail and not releasing it until the bow has come through the wind on the other side, you can often bring the sail and sheet around quite quickly and smartly with little chance of it hanging up. Worth a try.

 

[jviss]

I'm curious how you broke a fid. That's some aggressive fidding there.

My jib sheet is one continuous line, doubled on itself with the loop passed through the clew and the tail(s) passed through the loop - very clean and small - there's a name for that kind of bend...which I can't think of now.

I know that used to be popular on smaller boats, but also not always the best, since you can't take off the lazy sheet while sailing, for example, to unjam, etc.

 

[Ross]

If you seize the tail to the inside of the loop you woun't have a problem with the knot fouling on the rigging.

 

[Indysailor]

I'm impressed by anyone who is willing to splice old line. No where near as easy as new. I made a wire fid out of a coat hanger. It's easier than the tube fids I have.

 

[redhead78]

What r u using to attach to the sail shackles????If this is the case I think I would stay with the bowlines, I have yet to have one open,,and hang ups are not a problem.... Red

 

[Gudenuph]

I'd use a RACK seizing which is quick, easy, strong and easy to cut free to uninstall. Just taper the line end and make an eye through the cringle. Use a figure eight pattern, passing the seizing line between the legs of the eye on each turn, continuing for 3 or 4 line diameters. Finish up with a smooth, snug tapping for no more hang ups.

FWIW, Geohan

 

[All U Get]

I'm curious how you broke a fid. That's some aggressive fidding there.

My jib sheet is one continuous line, doubled on itself with the loop passed through the clew and the tail(s) passed through the loop - very clean and small - there's a name for that kind of bend...which I can't think of now.
quote]

I have several fids, Brian Toss, NE ropes uni-fid, and a Yale Cordage which happened to be plastic with the fid lengths printed on the inside. I had the first two at home so breaking the last one was a bit annoying. The lines are heavy for offshore use so when I was pushing the tail to have the nose come out at the "dot" it dropped to the cockpit floor and I had the tail left in my hand.

I've had a lot of luck making ad hoc fids out of wire coat hangars (bent in a long "u" shape). I've also never had a bowline, used to secure headsail sheets, either open accidently or hang up on the rigging. If you start your tack by backing the headsail and not releasing it until the bow has come through the wind on the other side, you can often bring the sail and sheet around quite quickly and smartly with little chance of it hanging up. Worth a try.

I thought I'd try the Cow hitch to fasten the sheets but I'll have to ponder how the set will run. Each sheet is over 70 feet because of the staysail being on a furler. That's why a single sheet tied in the middle would be a bit heavy. I've had several people aboard that have said the same thing about tacking, "Furl the Genoa".

All U Get

 

[NotCook]

We encounter the same issue when tacking our genoa - the sheets hang up on the inner jib stay, and we have to walk forward and clear it.

I was going to ask the same thing about breaking a fid - ours are steel, and I simply cannot imagine breaking one, especially of the size for a 3/4" sheet!

 

[All U Get]

These fids were plastic and I was just getting to like them. I do have the solid rod and hook style fids and the Brian Toss noose fid. Yale cordage is down the road in Saco, Maine so I might stop in to see what they have in the store.
Might be making our first trip south this winter so I'm trying to get ready.
All U Get

 

[thinwater]

JV's right about the bowline knots, btw. You can tie 'em with the bitter end inside the loop, rather than outside. That's the way I do mine, by default. I know how to tie the other style, but I never do.

Jim

The other style--tail outside--is not a bowline. It is equivalent to a granny knot; a mistake. It is much weaker.

 

[jviss]

The other style--tail outside--is not a bowline. It is equivalent to a granny knot; a mistake. It is much weaker.

That's simply not so. You misunderstand what is being said.

There are two ways of tying a bowline, the 'conventional' way, sometimes referred to as the Cowboy bowline,such that the end is outboard of the knot, and another, sometimes referred to as the standard bowline, with the end inside.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowboy_bowline