H23 Folding Rudder issues

[Paladin27]

So, this past weekend, we had 3 to 5 ft waves in Lake Michigan near South Haven (well that's what NOAA said, although the local stink boaters warned me it was 6ft+ as I was passing them headed out). Winds were measured at 22knot gusts, so it was a rip roaring afternoon! Here's a video...

My issue is that the retractable rudder keeps popping out in any kind of really active conditions. It REALLY REALLY sucks when it pops out and I'm trying to surf a wave and we are at 30 degrees. I'm about ready to just drill a 2nd hole through the rudder and pin it. I've already changed to a new racing cam cleat that was suggested on this forum in a thread from a couple years ago, but it sucks and pops pretty much every couple of minutes when the waves get big. Thoughts or suggestions?

 

[C Jones]

Can't help with this one. The leading edge of my original rudder split on my second sail and I got the Ida sailer rudder tiller. It stays down in 3 footers on my inland lake. Good video, its also good to see sailors with pfd's on in 20 knot plus wind. Looked like the perfect day for the crew to do a Captain OB drill. Charles

 

[isaksp00]

Our lake isn't that large, so I don't see that problem. Maybe a cleat mounted atop the aluminum bracket would work, with a pair of recesses drilled into the top of the tiller stock for the bolts. A cleat on the tiller itself seems like it might tend to lift the tiller, depending on the angle.

I have touched rocks with mine, and it shredded the outer jacket of the line in the cam cleat. I'm not sure what would have happened if it had been cleated.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

With a kick up rudder it can be hard to keep down. Do you have any shims between the rudder and rudder housing? If you could put some typle of rubber shims or something along that line, maybe that might work

 

[Paladin27]

When I got the boat it had a cleat mounted on the tiller and the line came up and over from the cam cleat and into the tiller cleat. It would do as you suspected, isaksp00, and pop the Tiller up but still release the line from the cam cleat. The original cam cleat's teeth were worn out and it wouldn't grip lines anymore, so I replaced it with an auto-releasing cam cleat... like this....
http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_details.asp?theid2=78
But that cleat pops just as often as the old one did, the line never pulls out, but the cleat itself pops open (as it's designed), but even when just coming over a a large wave sometimes.

The rudder has 4 or 5 spacer washers between itself and the outer metal housing, but adding rubber shims is an interesting suggestion, maybe to help dampen that initial jolt so it doesn't pop the cam cleat???

A reference photo with the current auto releasing cam cleat.

 

[isaksp00]

Mine has a "regular" cam cleat about where your auto-release cleat is, the kind with jaws and springs that hold it closed against the rope. Yours has the kind of jaws that are what I have heard called a "jam cleat". I know you must have paid through the nose for that, but you may want to consider the cam cleat style that doesn't have that autorelease feature. It won't pop on a grounding, but your lake is pretty deep... As I mentioned, I did drag on a rock a bit at low idle speed and the pressure shredded the outer layer of the line, so it did sort of autorelease - maybe this style would not pop in waves.
Peter

 

[carboman]

It does suck. My rudder housing has some extra holes in it but I don't think it was to fix that. I am going to a jam cleat. Would be cool to have some type of mech that would release the line out of any cleat when it kicks up. That baby is tight!

 

[cephius (Dave)]

carboman, you mean like this?
http://www.clamcleat.com/cleats/cleat_details.asp?theid2=78

 

[Paladin27]

Lol, Dave, that's a joke right?

 

[cephius (Dave)]

No joke Paladin27,

A number of small Hunter sailors have changed to cleats that are designed to break open if the rudder is struck. The one I linked to may be under sized, but there are correct size cleats for our rudders available.

 

[jimfrankelly]

For years I held down the "kickup" rudder on my Macgregor 26 by leading the hold down line through a triple ring of bungie cord around my stern rail, then tying it off on a cleat. The rudder would kick up if it hit something but then snap back down.

I abandoned this system for a breakaway cleat on the tiller of my 2002 Hunter 270. A week ago the rudder kicked up during wavy & high wind conditions, rose to the surface & broke off. I have ordered a Rudder Craft machined plastic rudder as a replacement.

I am going to use a hybrid system to lock this rudder down & prevent it rising to the surface. A breakaway cleat on the tiller will be used to hold the rudder down. I am going to tie a loop in this hold down line just before it enters the breakaway cleat. I am going to tie a line from this loop to a triple coil of bungee cord on the stern rail. This line should prevent the rudder from rising if the rudder hits bottom, but should permit enough movement to prevent any damage to the rudder.

So, this past weekend, we had 3 to 5 ft waves in Lake Michigan near South Haven (well that's what NOAA said, although the local stink boaters warned me it was 6ft+ as I was passing them headed out). Winds were measured at 22knot gusts, so it was a rip roaring afternoon! Here's a video...

My issue is that the retractable rudder keeps popping out in any kind of really active conditions. It REALLY REALLY sucks when it pops out and I'm trying to surf a wave and we are at 30 degrees. I'm about ready to just drill a 2nd hole through the rudder and pin it. I've already changed to a new racing cam cleat that was suggested on this forum in a thread from a couple years ago, but it sucks and pops pretty much every couple of minutes when the waves get big. Thoughts or suggestions?

 

[Paladin27]

Dave, I think you missed my cleat link then... that is the EXACT cleat I changed too.. it sucks. ;-) It pops out all the time, even set to maximum. That was the largest auto-release cleat I could locate. If anybody knows of a larger one, that'd be really helpful!