C22 Centerboard Winch

[bardsong]

First, hello! I just created this account for a friend of mine, for whom I just purchased a 1984 Catalina 22. The first few posts will probably be by me, but then I'm going to turn the account over to him.

Shawn (bardsong) is new to sailing, and wanted me to find him a decent starter boat that he could afford. I immediately began searching locally for Catalina 22s because I think they're great boats. I myself own a larger keelboat (Bristol 34 sloop), but I used to own an Oday 20, which is similar in size and operation (although nowhere near as cool as the C22, since it didn't have the pop-up top). Anyway, all the centerboard boats I've ever owned (including the Oday) just had a line that you pulled the swing keel up by hand with and cleated.

This is the first time I've used a winch system for a swing keel, and I must admit, I'm a bit baffled by it. Forgive the dumb question, but I can't figure out how to lower it. The winch itself looks a lot like a trailer winch, except I don't see any kind of release.

I thought maybe it had some kind of clutch on it and that if I turned it slightly clockwise that I could get it to release. Well, all that did was make it tighter. I also noticed that the cable looks like it's getting ready to fail (several strands are broken/frayed). Obviously, we are going to have to replace the cable.

Anyway, back to the dumb question: How do I get it to release to lower the keel?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

-- Doug

 

[MrUnix]

Those winches get replaced quite often on older boats, so you really need to take a couple of photos so we can see what you are dealing with. If it's not a clutch type winch, which it doesn't appear to be, then there has to be a release mechanism somewhere.

Personally, I would go ahead and replace the winch with a clutch type at the same time I replaced the keel cable. Your standard trailer type winch is pretty dangerous should you let it get away from you.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[John23883]

There is no release

Las t week on a friends C22, I asked the same question. Release? Nope, you just turn the crank the opposite way. Turn one way up, the other way down. I'm not sure of the inner workings but it works!

 

[bardsong]

Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty sure it's the original Catalina winch.

It looks just like this one (except it's not red)

 

[bardsong]

Well, this one doesn't seem to want to turn the opposite way.

 

[bardsong]

I just realized this ended up in the general sailing area -- I meant to post this in the Ask a Catalina Owner section, sorry. I guess maybe I will go post the question there, too.

Thanks

 

[MrUnix]

The ones you just turn one way or another are clutch types.. and what you show in the picture is not one of those. It is the recommended replacement however and much safer. What you got there is a standard geared trailer winch, which is typical on most older swing keel boats. You should have a spring loaded pawl somewhere on the toothed side that locks into the gears teeth. I can see where it looks like a spring attached (the hole just above where the handle connects), so follow the spring and see what it's attached to.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[bardsong]

Yeah, that's what I thought. I looked and looked for a "pawl" (though I didn't know that's what it was called -- I was calling it a "lock thingy."

I couldn't seem to find one, but I will go back tomorrow and look more closely.

Thanks!

 

[c_witch]

Its probably got a locking paw on it somewhere to lock it in forward and then flip it the opposite way to lower it etc much like a boat winch. I disagree about the safety issue with using a standard boat winch. Our boat is a 22 footer. On land you can feel some weight on the keel but in the water you can pull the keel up quite a way by hand due to its buoyancy. Our winch can be set up to crank down on click at a time or reversed to crank up one click at a time OR set to simply wind down or up without the pawl engaging and then lock when up or down. I used a 1400# boat winch which was really over kill as a 600 or 800 would have easily done the job, but then got it onsale for the same price.

c_witch

PS REPLACE THE KEEL CABLE

 

[HukilauMike]

Definitely replace that cable. You don't want your 800 lbs of lead ballast swinging around uncontrolled. On my Catalina 22 (many years ago), the crank just turned one way or the other; no pawl release switch. I didn't really like the set up as you couldn't tell the position of the board unless you cranked it all the way up or all the way down.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the boat. I think you did well by your friend. The pop top makes the 22 one of the best little cruisers out there IMHO. And Catalina is still around to support. However, I like the Odays better overall. I think their stub keel centerboard arrangement is just better than the swing keel on the Catalinas. The Odays don't have that crank, just a line to control the unweighted centerboard. And, the Odays have the head behind a door. One should never underestimate the value of this feature when sailing with the ladies.

In any case, your friend has some great sailing ahead of him!

 

[MrUnix]

I disagree about the safety issue with using a standard boat winch. Our boat is a 22 footer. On land you can feel some weight on the keel but in the water you can pull the keel up quite a way by hand due to its buoyancy.

Sounds like you have a centerboard, not a weighted swing keel (lead/iron has no buoyancy)! Most swing keels are many hundreds of pounds and there is no way you can pull it up any distance by hand. As for the safety issue, if the winch gets away from you while cranking, that handle can spin fast and hard.. I almost broke my arm once on my little Venture 17 many years ago when it happened to me, and it only had a ~300 pound swing keel Fortunately, I was left with only a really big nasty bruise for a few weeks, but others have not been so fortunate. YMMV.

Cheers,
Brad

 

[tkanzler]

That looks like a Fulton 1000 lb brake winch. No release mechanism - just wind it down to lower the load.

If the wire rope is bound from sloppy winding, it may raise the CB no matter which way you wind, but that's not the winch's fault. Look carefully at which way the rope is wound, and unwind it accordingly. If the rope is jammed, you may have to work it out. Then replace, as a broken rope is a lousy way to fly.

http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...adwords!6456&keyword=product_ad_5597&type=pla

 

[bardsong]

Thanks, everybody. As it turns out, the winch DOES turn in the opposite direction to lower the keel. It just took a little more initial force to make it do that, and I wasn't wanting to force anything without finding out just how this thing works. Thanks again!

 

[c_witch]

Sounds like you have a centerboard, not a weighted swing keel (lead/iron has no buoyancy)! Most swing keels are many hundreds of pounds and there is no way you can pull it up any distance by hand. As for the safety issue, if the winch gets away from you while cranking, that handle can spin fast and hard.. I almost broke my arm once on my little Venture 17 many years ago when it happened to me, and it only had a ~300 pound swing keel Fortunately, I was left with only a really big nasty bruise for a few weeks, but others have not been so fortunate. YMMV.

Cheers,
Brad

Hiee Brad,

>Well if its a centerboard then its one heave board. When we had it on the cradle the keel was stuck in the keel box, sand etc holding it. We finally free'd it up and it dropped down, about a 15 degree angle. The cradle was not high enough for it to drop all the way down. Long story short is we could barely push it up off the ground by hand. I wanted to take it off and weigh it but we didn't. My estimate is that it weighs around 250 to 350 pounds. My guess is that its cast steel and encased in resin and glass.

c_witch

 

[tkanzler]

There may be a brake adjustment, but I don't know that for sure. If there is, you may want to take a little off, once you get the CB working smoothly and all the rust and spiderwebs out of the system. It needs to hold the CB up, but you shouldn't have to crank hard to lower it. If in doubt, it's better to have too much resistance than too little, but much too much will only wear the brake out sooner than necessary.

 

[cwkemp]

I sail a '71 Catalina 22 currently with the original restored clutch type winch. I also restored the swing keel which is over 500 lbs. of cast iron. I would think that a ratchet style winch would be more dangerous even though the full weight of the keel is not on the winch. I find the clutch very convenient. I would also NOT recommend sailing with the keel partially raised as the stability you would lose would not be worth any speed you would gain downwind, it's keel up or keel down. Definitely replace the cable and carefully inspect all other components of the swing keel system. There is a lot of detailed info in the forums concerning this.... and welcome to sailing!
Clint