two shrouds on one chainplate

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njl

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May 30, 2011
64
Westsail 32 NYC
I have two shrouds connecting to a chainplate in an awkward way and would like to fix it. The heavier shroud connects to the main mast properly. There's a lighter shroud connected to a topmast (gaff rig) and is shackled to the same chainplate. The arrangement has held for the life of the boat (20+ years), so I see it as more of an aesthetic concern.

How should this be set up properly?
 

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Oct 26, 2005
2,057
- - Satellite Beach, FL.
I'd say a wider chainplate with a dedicated hole for that shroud or a seperate chain plate. Shackles are not designed to take a side load like that but rather an in line pull.
Was the rig changed? Maybe that's why there isn't a proper spot for that attachment.
Westsails are pretty beefy boats so I doubt you'd need to reinforce the hull for either option. Might try asking on an owners group (probably on yahoo or google) for best info.
Great boat!
 
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Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
At the very least get a triangular plate to split the shrouds. Shackle through the toggle is not good mechanical practice.Two short lengths of chain shackled to the chainplate would also serve. Connect one shroud to each.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,323
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
That's a rube goldberg fix that was not part of the original rigging plan. I don't blame you for wanting to fix it. Any particular reason the shroud is secured with a shackle?

Is the other side the same, can you be more specific about the shroud's function?
Although, Ross' triangular plate may be a good solution. I think a picture or drawing of the entire shroud and how it interacts with the rig might be helpful If you were looking for a more functional and aesthetic modification.
 

njl

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May 30, 2011
64
Westsail 32 NYC
Any particular reason the shroud is secured with a shackle?...

Is the other side the same, can you be more specific about the shroud's function?...
There are three pairs of shrouds for the main mast with one pair leading to the top and two pairs (slightly fore and aft) leading to the hounds. Since the center pair of shrouds rest on the spreaders, they provide a good lead for the topmast shrouds which also rest on the spreaders.

The topmast is a separate spruce stick about 12 feet long. The topmast has one pair of shrouds that basically piggy-backs on the main mast's center shroud's chainplate. The shackle is a simple means of achieving the piggy-backing and because it's such a light load, it hasn't been a structural concern.

Here's a pic of the masthead shot from below aft.
 

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Ross

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Jun 15, 2004
14,693
Islander/Wayfairer 30 sail number 25 Perryville,Md.
It has distorted the toggle!
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
First the 'bad' news. What I see in your pics is that the turnbuckle is a closed "barrel" turnbuckle and the toggle-bolt is probably not a forged T-bolt but the infamous Taiwanese machined and screwed together T-bolts .... probably made by "Grand Deer".

How to ID these 'disaster waiting to happen T-Bolts': look very carefully where the threaded part connects to the cross link of the T-Bolt .... if the 'thread of the bolt' seems to 'disappear' into the "cross bar" and not tapered and blended to the cross bar as ***ONE SINGLE PIECE**** ...... the cross bar is machined to fit the treaded portion of T-bolt assembly. If so you need to *immediately replace* the T-Bolts in their entirety, replace them with forged T-bolts ... and the strap eyes on the T-bolts.

These 'machined' T-bolts are known to *catastrophically fail* due to crevice corrosion deep within the 'bar' of the T-bolt. You can still use the old closed barrel turnbuckle ... but eventually plan on changing them out too next time you replace the rigging.

A good rigger will have replacement FORGED T-bolts and strap eyes. You might want to put a temporary stay (halyard, etc.), remove that T-bolt and take 'real good look' at it off the rig to help ID if it is in fact a non-forged / 'machined' toggle bolt. If a boat has one such t-bolt you probably have 'many' such machined 'exploding' T-bolts.
====================

As to the rigging 'anomalie', best way do to this is a new chainplate with a
double eye at the terminal upper end of the plate. The main load from the rigging shoud be as straight as possible into the plate proper - the auxiliary load 'can' be connected to the main plate as a smooth offset (an angular 'gusset'). Take a look in your harbor for any cutter rig that also has intermediate stays (Baba, Panda, Tashiba, Tayana, Valiant, Passport, etc.).... the intermediate stay usually always connect to the same chainplate that also connects to the lower aft shrouds --- a single chainplate with two 'pin connections', one for each stay.



hope this helps.
:)
 
Last edited:
Jun 6, 2006
6,990
currently boatless wishing Harrington Harbor North, MD
I'd have the machine shop fabricate a plate to connect the shroud. I'd not try and use a single plate (triangular or otherwise) to connect them. There appears to be enough lower pin length to fit in another dog bone shaped plate. That is all based on keeping the current turnbuckle.
Alternatly you could match the existing (correct) turnbuckle in which case I'd have the machine shop just copy the existing one and then turn it 180 degrees. There is already an off set in the correct one so placing them back to back should work fine. This would also balance the load on the lower pin. My concern would be the pin length and wither you could get all four plates plus the chainplate through
 

RichH

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Feb 14, 2005
4,773
Tayana 37 cutter; I20/M20 SCOWS Worton Creek, MD
Here's what the 'inside' of one of these exploding (machined) T-bolts looks like ......

 
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